Do you believe in fatalism or free will?

[Lune]

Originally Posted by NopeNopeNopeNope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dozens and dozens of Reddit broÂ’s have taken various forms of this argument during my time there. Except theirs was a bit more practical and less theological

Their argument was always “why can’t I be content where I am as single, lonely, and unemployed and not be some wage slave to a corporate overlord?”

The real issue is and always has been the work. “Wage slave” implies entry level jobs. The greater your skillset and education, the more leverage you have not just in pay but how you are treated as well. If these Reddit bros were just man enough to come out snd admit “hey man, it’s just too much work for me to improve my skillset that much” I’d be like /fistbump bro right there with ya. I don’t think I could become a doctor or engineer, that’s just too much school. But I at least have the balls to admit the truth and not try to do some mental gymnastics about how it’s really about capitalism and not my own personal laziness

I think wage slave more implies non-meaningful work that doesn't bring fulfillment to your life, to some people that even means being a doctor (high suicide rate when they find out what the job actually is, basically a 7 minute assembly line for some healthcare corp).

The complaint is more as follows: Even if you're insanely skilled and competent, and work hard, there are very few paths to financial independence and fulfillment that don't involve being a toadie in some CEO's downline. Yes, if you excel in your work, you are able to leverage a larger piece of the pie for yourself, but as long as you are an employee and not an owner, most of the proceeds of your excellence are just going into someone's yacht fund. Fast forward 30 years, the vast majority of people have spent 10 hours a day 5 days a week carving out enough for themselves that yea, they've been able to kinda enjoy life, go on some vacations, buy a house, have some kids.

When you look in the backend you see that their zeal and drive to carve out a life for themselves was channeled into fuel for capitalism, for someone else's benefit. You were allowed to keep a hefty portion for yourself, but not without kicking up to the guy at the top of the pyramid. Very, very few people have the capacity to subvert this process.

In life, there is no way around having to work to earn your freedom, even if you work for yourself (unless you were born with money). I'm sure there are plenty of dropouts who do so out of laziness or just being too stupid, but I'd also argue that opting out on ideological terms can be a valid and honorable choice. On the other side of it, hustle culture is fucking insufferable.

What would Jesus do?

[NopeNopeNopeNope]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think wage slave more implies non-meaningful work that doesn't bring fulfillment to your life, to some people that even means being a doctor (high suicide rate when they find out what the job actually is, basically a 7 minute assembly line for some healthcare corp).

The complaint is more as follows: Even if you're insanely skilled and competent, and work hard, there are very few paths to financial independence and fulfillment that don't involve being a toadie in some CEO's downline. Yes, if you excel in your work, you are able to leverage a larger piece of the pie for yourself, but as long as you are an employee and not an owner, most of the proceeds of your excellence are just going into someone's yacht fund. Fast forward 30 years, the vast majority of people have spent 10 hours a day 5 days a week carving out enough for themselves that yea, they've been able to kinda enjoy life, go on some vacations, buy a house, have some kids.

When you look in the backend you see that their zeal and drive to carve out a life for themselves was channeled into fuel for capitalism, for someone else's benefit. You were allowed to keep a hefty portion for yourself, but not without kicking up to the guy at the top of the pyramid. Very, very few people have the capacity to subvert this process.

In life, there is no way around having to work to earn your freedom, even if you work for yourself (unless you were born with money). I'm sure there are plenty of dropouts who do so out of laziness or just being too stupid, but I'd also argue that opting out on ideological terms can be a valid and honorable choice. On the other side of it, hustle culture is fucking insufferable.

What would Jesus do?

I do agree it is harder than ever to support oneself and no longer the case where a man can support an entire family on his income alone

However, some of the benefits to working, as I see them are:

1. You are doing your community a service. There is no dishonorable job. From a garbage truck driver to a dishwasher to a CEO, you are doing a positive thing for your community. Pat yourself on the back. You are a champion

2. It puts you on a schedule. Retirement is a killer for one main reason: we are built to move and have purpose. Lose your purpose, stop moving, and you die. Well, much faster anyway

3. It helps keep your socialization in practice, for most jobs. Most Reddit bro recluses that are using TEH EVIL CAPITALISM as an excuse to not work are often human women repellant. And friend repellant. They are often loners with no social skills and are doing whatever they can to ensure that they don’t have to do any exposure therapy aka socialization practice to get better at socializing. Let’s just be a hermit forever and hope after I die that someone will notice the smell in a few weeks, yadda yadda

4. Going along with 3, it creates opportunities for those who develop social skills to network. People date co-workers, co-workers sometimes become roommates and best friends

That’s just off the top of my head, there are numerous other benefits

And what’s the alternative? To waste away in some parent’s basement complaining online about not being able to feel fulfilled in many jobs?

It may suck, or seem like it sucks (I don’t think it sucks even with a low paying job due to those benefits plus more) but it’s better than any alternative

[Reiwa]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think wage slave more implies non-meaningful work that doesn't bring fulfillment to your life, to some people that even means being a doctor (high suicide rate when they find out what the job actually is, basically a 7 minute assembly line for some healthcare corp).

The complaint is more as follows: Even if you're insanely skilled and competent, and work hard, there are very few paths to financial independence and fulfillment that don't involve being a toadie in some CEO's downline. Yes, if you excel in your work, you are able to leverage a larger piece of the pie for yourself, but as long as you are an employee and not an owner, most of the proceeds of your excellence are just going into someone's yacht fund. Fast forward 30 years, the vast majority of people have spent 10 hours a day 5 days a week carving out enough for themselves that yea, they've been able to kinda enjoy life, go on some vacations, buy a house, have some kids.

When you look in the backend you see that their zeal and drive to carve out a life for themselves was channeled into fuel for capitalism, for someone else's benefit. You were allowed to keep a hefty portion for yourself, but not without kicking up to the guy at the top of the pyramid. Very, very few people have the capacity to subvert this process.

In life, there is no way around having to work to earn your freedom, even if you work for yourself (unless you were born with money). I'm sure there are plenty of dropouts who do so out of laziness or just being too stupid, but I'd also argue that opting out on ideological terms can be a valid and honorable choice. On the other side of it, hustle culture is fucking insufferable.

What would Jesus do?

The valuation and growth of CEO stock compensation has nearly nothing to do with the day-to-day activities of the business. Nothing is stolen.