Gearing a ranger

[Goregasmic]

Mainhand:
Rev whip = 1.5
Jade mace = 1.611
Earthcaller = 1.625
GCM = 1.65
CBoL = 1.722
Exq. Velium = 1.75
SBoZ = 1.833
HOH = 1.855

Offhand:
Swiftwind = 1.238 (and 41% haste)
SBoZ = 1.222
BoC = 1.304

2h:
Argent P. = 2.571
Woodsman = 2.611
Herb shovel = 2,674

Technically a SBoZ + epic scores 3,071 which is higher than the 2handers but you have what, 40% miss rate on offhands? So that swiftwind 1.238 becomes 0.743 so 2.576 combined which is about on par with an argent protector that is now worth 2,5k on green. Nothing wrong with 1handers but they're a lot more money/hassle for similar results on paper. 5% extra haste and +30atk with swiftwind compared to a 36% item and you free up a slot though so that's nice but you now have to get at least a CBoL just to stay on par with a cheap 2hander.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mainhand:
Rev whip = 1.5
Jade mace = 1.611
Earthcaller = 1.625
GCM = 1.65
CBoL = 1.722
Exq. Velium = 1.75
SBoZ = 1.833
HOH = 1.855

Offhand:
Swiftwind = 1.238 (and 41% haste)
SBoZ = 1.222
BoC = 1.304

2h:
Argent P. = 2.571
Woodsman = 2.611
Herb shovel = 2,674

Technically a SBoZ + epic scores 3,071 which is higher than the 2handers but you have what, 40% miss rate on offhands? So that swiftwind 1.238 becomes 0.743 so 2.576 combined which is about on par with an argent protector that is now worth 2,5k on green. Nothing wrong with 1handers but they're a lot more money/hassle for similar results on paper. 5% extra haste and +30atk with swiftwind compared to a 36% item and you free up a slot though so that's nice but you now have to get at least a CBoL just to stay on par with a cheap 2hander.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=440

I did a post on 1h vs 2h DPS for my 52 Monk. In the low 50s 1h combos can out DPS 2h weapons. This is because the 2h damage bonus is smaller. My Epic Fist + SoS was out DPSing an IFS when I wasn't fistweaving. They were very similar when fistweaving. Rangers can't fistweave, so it wouldn't surprise me if something like Wurmslayer + Swiftwind could out-DPS a Woodsman Staff at 52.

That being said, Fear Kiting, Bow Kiting, or Jousting would probably work better for solo Rangers in their 50s. 1h weapons don't work well for any of those strategies, so it's somewhat of a moot point.

Hopefully Bcbrown will share some parsing at some point to see if there is any significant difference between Monks and Rangers. Monks do have higher dual wield in the low 50s, so that will be a bit different from a Ranger.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=440

I did a post on 1h vs 2h DPS for my 52 Monk. In the low 50s 1h combos can out DPS 2h weapons. This is because the 2h damage bonus is smaller. My Epic Fist + SoS was out DPSing an IFS when I wasn't fistweaving. They were very similar when fistweaving. Rangers can't fistweave, so it wouldn't surprise me if something like Wurmslayer + Swiftwind could out-DPS a Woodsman Staff at 52.

That being said, Fear Kiting, Bow Kiting, or Jousting would probably work better for solo Rangers in their 50s. 1h weapons don't work well for any of those strategies, so it's somewhat of a moot point.

Hopefully Bcbrown will share some parsing at some point to see if there is any significant difference between Monks and Rangers. Monks do have higher dual wield in the low 50s, so that will be a bit different from a Ranger.

Yeah, as usual, trust but verify especially before 60 if you care to optimize. At 50 damage bonus and DW starts being significant and at 55+ ranger get an innate offensive bonus. Might play out a little different from expectations. Also, the mobs you fight might mix it up a little.

The previous numbers are weapon basics but other factors may skew the results. It is possible epic + SBoZ fares better (I'd hope so) but you're probably not too far off with an AP especially considering bow damage, weaving casts and jousting like snaggles said... for less than a tenth of the price.

If anything we're seeing both options are viable, which it kinda nice but it depends on your budget. I'm a big fan of slow two handers, feel so good when double attack connects for max damage but missing 4 times in a row when the mob is about to flee and you're about to hit low hp aggro... it makes you want to scream. I know some people can't stand it and I understand.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mainhand:
Rev whip = 1.5
Jade mace = 1.611
Earthcaller = 1.625
GCM = 1.65
CBoL = 1.722
Exq. Velium = 1.75
SBoZ = 1.833
HOH = 1.855

How are these numbers calculated?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did a post on 1h vs 2h DPS for my 52 Monk. In the low 50s 1h combos can out DPS 2h weapons. This is because the 2h damage bonus is smaller. My Epic Fist + SoS was out DPSing an IFS when I wasn't fistweaving. They were very similar when fistweaving. Rangers can't fistweave, so it wouldn't surprise me if something like Wurmslayer + Swiftwind could out-DPS a Woodsman Staff at 52.

Your combat model is neither useful nor accurate. The difference between your estimate for the FM giants (34 vs 34.34) and your actual parsed results (30.67 DPS vs 31.5) is larger than the difference between the two sets of weapons. You also need to use the actual results (when you scale your Coroduth numbers by 30.67 / 55.7 to find that "mitigation offset" number). Any approach that needs the actual results when making an estimate is, to use a technical term, fucked beyond redemption.

It's both simpler and just as accurate to just calculate (2*damage + damage bonus) / delay as a way to compare different weapons. And if that gives you a result where two weapon-sets come out within a DPS or two, you can either treat them as equivalent or do the actual parsing to confirm.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your combat model is neither useful nor accurate. The difference between your estimate for the FM giants (34 vs 34.34) and your actual parsed results (30.67 DPS vs 31.5) is larger than the difference between the two sets of weapons. You also need to use the actual results (when you scale your Coroduth numbers by 30.67 / 55.7 to find that "mitigation offset" number). Any approach that needs the actual results when making an estimate is, to use a technical term, fucked beyond redemption.

It's both simpler and just as accurate to just calculate (2*damage + damage bonus) / delay as a way to compare different weapons. And if that gives you a result where two weapon-sets come out within a DPS or two, you can either treat them as equivalent or do the actual parsing to confirm.

You need to re-read my post, as you clearly didn't understand it. Please do not let your obvious biases cloud your ability to think, as you so often do. It doesn't help the conversations, or your understanding of the game.

Each mob has a different AC value, which isn't known to anybody but the devs of P99. Of course you need to get the actual results from each mob, because they have different AC values. These AC values will change the final result that skews the dice roll that determines which damage value to use (the mitigation offset).

Level difference is also a large factor in the equation. This is why Corudoth is a good mob to start with. A level 5 mob has a 55 level difference compared to a level 60, which will heavily skew the mitigation offset towards 1.0.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How are these numbers calculated?

The few I checked seem dmg x 2 + 11 (bonus at 60) / delay

For mainland that’s accurate using the common method.

Per level it changes though. That Lucy’s table seems accurate. It’s at least accurate per the few 2hs I’ve checked using bow crit math (hit - crit = damage bonus) at level 60.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your combat model is neither useful nor accurate. The difference between your estimate for the FM giants (34 vs 34.34) and your actual parsed results (30.67 DPS vs 31.5) is larger than the difference between the two sets of weapons. You also need to use the actual results (when you scale your Coroduth numbers by 30.67 / 55.7 to find that "mitigation offset" number). Any approach that needs the actual results when making an estimate is, to use a technical term, fucked beyond redemption.

It's both simpler and just as accurate to just calculate (2*damage + damage bonus) / delay as a way to compare different weapons. And if that gives you a result where two weapon-sets come out within a DPS or two, you can either treat them as equivalent or do the actual parsing to confirm.

Let me explain my post in a slightly different way, as you didn't seem to grasp the point of the post I made. Here is the post being referenced:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=440

We don't have all of the information for P99's damage formula and mob stats. Therefore we must backwards engineer this information using real data from mobs. When backwards engineering, you need to find a mob that can act as a control for the upper bounds of the proposed damage formula. Corudoth is a good mob to use for this, because it is level 5.

A 47 level difference will heavily skew the damage formula. This much as been observed by players time and time again. The data I provided also shows this. I did 55 DPS to Corudoth, and 30 DPS to the FM Giants. My DPS almost doubled when attacking a mob that was 47 levels below me compared to a mob that was only 2 levels below me. This shows how much level difference affects the damage formula.

Obviously the actual mitigation offset of Corudoth is not exactly 1.0. It's probably something like 0.9 or 0.95. Since I don't have Corudoth's exact stats or P99's damage formula, I set the mitigation offset to 1.0 on Corudoth for simplicity to show how the scaling works. This will skew the predicted DPS numbers to be a bit higher than the actual DPS numbers. This is why the predicted DPS for the FM giants was 34 instead of 30.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How are these numbers calculated?

(2*damage + damage bonus) / delay

Dmg bonus at 60. 2h uses the lucy damage charts to calculate 2h bonus. From my understanding that's the commonly used method of comparison.

I noticed for 2handers, usually just checking the ratio between weapons will give you a very good indicator of where they stand against eachother.

For 1h mainhand, speed matters a lot due to damage bonus and ratios are mostly useless.