Moss covered Twig

[everquest2025]

Does anyone know if the Moss covered twig holds agro better than wave crasher or frosty?

[zelld52]

No. It’s got 3 damage. The other two weapons have debuff procs.

[WarpathEQ]

Not even close

[everquest2025]

Thank you

[Andreaa23]

I was wondering about this too, luckily I found this article

[Goregasmic]

I'm not an expert so correct me if I'm wrong but:

If you do the (weapdmg x2 +db)/dly formula twig comes slightly ahead. So in the end it is down to how many procs you think you're going to get. Longer fights proc might win but on trash it isn't a given.

Hate is weapdmg + DB on every swing. And then procs.

9/19 on wavecrasher is terrible so unless you're getting it for the slow, for the same price you could get an exquisite velium 1hander that would rip a lot more in white damage at 12/20 and you'd most likely be ahead in hate generation AND damage.

And for 3k you could get a WESS that also has crap damage but is known to be up there for hate procs if hate is your main concern. That would leave 13k in your pockets.

Depending on your class there are some 2handers that also have solid aggro and good ratios.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not an expert so correct me if I'm wrong but:

If you do the (weapdmg x2 +db)/dly formula twig comes slightly ahead. So in the end it is down to how many procs you think you're going to get. Longer fights proc might win but on trash it isn't a given.

Hate is weapdmg + DB on every swing. And then procs.

9/19 on wavecrasher is terrible so unless you're getting it for the slow, for the same price you could get an exquisite velium 1hander that would rip a lot more in white damage at 12/20 and you'd most likely be ahead in hate generation AND damage.

And for 3k you could get a WESS that also has crap damage but is known to be up there for hate procs if hate is your main concern. That would leave 13k in your pockets.

Depending on your class there are some 2handers that also have solid aggro and good ratios.

At 100% haste Mosscovered twig will do 28 hate per second (11 Damage Bonus + 3 weapon Damage) with a swing every 0.5 seconds.

At 100% haste Wavecrasher will do like 21 hate per second (11 Damage Bonus + 9 Weapon Damage) with a swing every 0.95 seconds.

So you are looking at 1680 hate per minute (twig) vs. 1260 hate per minute (wavecrasher) when looking at swing hate.

If you have 255 DEX, you'll get an additional 840 hate per minute on average with Wavecrasher, assuming slow still gives 400 hate per proc from the slow component.

Wavecrasher will generally win out hate-wise at 255 DEX unless you get really unlucky on procs.

I do agree that Wavecrasher probably isn't worth the price, unless you have a lot of money to spare. Spend that money on Truncheon of Doom or Swarmcaller (depending on class) instead for a good slow proc.

Frostbringer generates a bit more hate than Wavecrasher, assuming it still generates 400 hate per proc from the ac reduction component. It generates 1255 hate per minute at 100% haste via swings plus 920 hate per minute at 255 DEX.

So you are correct that there isn't much purpose in spending 15k on wavecrasher when you can spend 1.5k on frostbringer.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At 100% haste Mosscovered twig will do 28 hate per second (11 Damage Bonus + 3 weapon Damage) with a swing every 0.5 seconds.

At 100% haste Wavecrasher will do like 21 hate per second (11 Damage Bonus + 9 Weapon Damage) with a swing every 0.95 seconds.

So you are looking at 1680 hate per minute (twig) vs. 1260 hate per minute (wavecrasher) when looking at swing hate.

If you have 255 DEX, you'll get an additional 840 hate per minute on average with Wavecrasher, assuming slow still gives 400 hate per proc from the slow component.

Wavecrasher will generally win out hate-wise at 255 DEX unless you get really unlucky on procs.

I do agree that Wavecrasher probably isn't worth the price, unless you have a lot of money to spare. Spend that money on Truncheon of Doom or Swarmcaller (depending on class) instead for a good slow proc.

Frostbringer generates a bit more hate than Wavecrasher, assuming it still generates 400 hate per proc from the ac reduction component. It generates 1255 hate per minute at 100% haste via swings plus 920 hate per minute at 255 DEX.

So you are correct that there isn't much purpose in spending 15k on wavecrasher when you can spend 1.5k on frostbringer.

Thanks for doing the math!

If OP mentions midrange weapons I'd guess he's nowhere close to 255 dex and doesn't get raid buffed but I could be wrong.

Hate from procs cap at 400 and its mostly procs with a lot of poison counters IIRC. Frostbringer and wavecrasher have solid hate procs but I'm not sure they go to 400. I know frostbringer is considered up there for hate generation but I've hardly ever seen wavecrasher mentionned, maybe because it is lesser known, maybe because it is so expensive for what it is.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for doing the math!

If OP mentions midrange weapons I'd guess he's nowhere close to 255 dex and doesn't get raid buffed but I could be wrong.

Hate from procs cap at 400 and its mostly procs with a lot of poison counters IIRC. Frostbringer and wavecrasher have solid hate procs but I'm not sure they go to 400. I know frostbringer is considered up there for hate generation but I've hardly ever seen wavecrasher mentionned, maybe because it is lesser known, maybe because it is so expensive for what it is.

No problem.

From my understanding the 400 hate cap only applies to the non damage portion of the spell. So the Slow in the case of Wavecrasher, and the AC reduction in the case of Frostbringer. On top of that you should get 1 hate per point of damage done.

This means Frostbringer will do up to 460 Hate per proc, assuming the AC reduction gets to the cap of 400 hate. This is because Frostbringer proc also does 60 direct damage.

If memory serves they changed how much hate slow generates somewhat recently, so I don't know of Wavecrasher would still cap at 400 for the slow portion of the proc. But if it does it would get 400 hate per proc plus an extra 200 hate per minute. I forgot that Wavecrasher is a DoT. You'd get 20 hate per tick.

Regardless, Wavecrasher isn't mentioned much because it is a weird weapon. It procs a 20% slow at level 1, but the slow only lasts 1 minute. This means you need to keep the weapon equipped for a good portion of the fight to keep the slow going.

However, at level 1 you'd be better off just killing mobs faster with something like Venemous Axe of the Velium Brood, which also procs at level 1. The ratio on axe is only slightly worse than Wavecrasher, and the 85 DD will kill lower level mobs, or significantly damage them.

At level 60 Wavecrasher isn't great because the ratio isn't very good, and you are spending a good amount of the fight with it equipped. While you'll get a 20% slow, you'll also drag the fight out longer by killing slower. So you probably don't save much HP at the end of the day. You also get access to better slow procs that last longer, like Truncheon of Doom or Swarmcaller (depending on classs) or Willsapper.

Wavecrasher would have been more interesting on P99 if it was equippable in offhand. Then you could dual wield willsapper and wavecrasher to try and apply a slow as fast as possible. On P99 people generally do more DPS than what the content was designed for, since a lot of players are heavily geared. So the defensive nature of Wavecrasher isn't as appealing on P99. On live where less people had slow weapons and people had worse weapons + lower DPS, it was probably a nicer weapon.

[Zuranthium]

Mosscovered twig is supposed to be offhand only, what is this talk?