monk ratios, primary and offhand choices

[Troxx]

Important raid targets are rarely brief enough fights that wild variance will exist.

An 18 man Trak burn that’s takes 10 seconds? Sure a bad run luck might be present … but the fight was over so quick it didn’t matter.

Citing AoW as an example is silly though. Even with multiple charm pets and 80-100+ players … that fight is going to be long enough that the risk of nothing but bad luck is statistically really, really (REALLY) improbable.

Point is simply that no matter how you slice it, the mantra of fast weapons for the damage bonus was turned on its head. 2handers now deal more damage bonus per unit time than fast weapons.

At 60 a 2handed weapon with a delay of 30 (tstaff) for example will have a chance to apply 29 damage bonus per hit at an interval of 3 seconds (1.5 seconds at max haste).

You would need a 1hander with a starting delay of 11 (before haste) to have greater dmg bonus potential. A delay of 12 isn’t fast enough.

No such weapon exists.

Admittedly the delay of 30 is quite literally THE sweet spot. Let’s use another example.

For a 2handed weapon with a delay of 40 (IFS) … it’s 34 dmg per 4 seconds.

You would need a 1 hander (main hand) with a delay of 13 to have mathematical parity with the dmg bonus potential of the IFS and a delay of 12 to beat it.

No such weapons exist.

This is why dual wielding for monks is so generally lame at this point. There has to be a massive (BiS endgame dual wield setups) ratio advantage to compete (beat) with 38/40 or 29/30 EC monk 2hander. At that point they only win via massive ratio superiority. If you have access to those weapons, you also have access to ToV or VP 2handers (and probably many for cheaper dkp) with ratios that far outclass the EC gear.

The higher the ac, the more relative importance the portion of your damage from damage bonus.

Math is math. It really isn’t complicated.

[Troxx]

Double post sorry

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You would need a 1hander with a starting delay of 11 (before haste) to have greater dmg bonus potential. A delay of 12 isn’t fast enough.

No such weapon exists.

My friend, have you considered red?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You would need a 1 hander (main hand) with a delay of 13 to have mathematical parity with the dmg bonus potential of the IFS and a delay of 12 to beat it.

No such weapons exist.

You don't need mathematical parity on damage bonus, you just need to math out which set of weapons does more damage.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...4&postcount=86

People can read this post to see that a FoN + Gharns should out DPS a Primal 2hb.

As I said before, just math out both weapons and/or parse them. If they are close, the dual wield combo is going to be more consistent.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Math is math. It really isn’t complicated.

Indeed. You should actually use math sometimes to support your positions. As you say, it isn't complicated.

We can use the linked post above to check TStaff's potential damage output:

46 weapon damage from the 2h in the linked post above divided by 29 weapon damage from TStaff is 1.58. The 221 max damage from the weapon example in the linked post above divided by 1.58 is 139.87.

(9 + 139.87) / 2 = 74.4 x 0.5 = 37.2 + 29 damage bonus = 66.2 damage

66.2 damage x 30 hits = 1986 damage compared to 2072 damage at least from FoN + Gharns. That damage value is a bit lower due to gharns having a slightly better ratio. I am also assuming a 50% dual wield chance, for the 2072 number, but it sounds like Monks have a higher dual wield chance than 50%. That would further increase the 2072 damage if true.

As you can see, you don't need a 1h weapon with a delay of 12 to out DPS a TStaff.

[Raralith]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We can use the linked post above to check TStaff's potential damage output:

46 weapon damage from the 2h in the linked post above divided by 29 weapon damage from TStaff is 1.58. The 221 max damage from the weapon example in the linked post above divided by 1.58 is 139.87.

(9 + 139.87) / 2 = 74.4 x 0.5 = 37.2 + 29 damage bonus = 66.2 damage

66.2 damage x 30 hits = 1986 damage compared to 2072 damage at least from FoN + Gharns. That damage value is a bit lower due to gharns having a slightly better ratio. I am also assuming a 50% dual wield chance, for the 2072 number, but it sounds like Monks have a higher dual wield chance than 50%. That would further increase the 2072 damage if true.

As you can see, you don't need a 1h weapon with a delay of 12 to out DPS a TStaff.

Assuming the numbers check out, a 2hb tstaff is 1,986 damage vs. Tunare + Vulak weapons are 2,072 damage ignoring procs on both ends and stats you gain. A 50k 2hb from KC vs two incredibly hard to obtain BIS does 4.3% more damage? I'm assuming that doesn't even factor in 2HB weaving? As a new monk player, unless I'm the 1%, I'm basically keeping my 2HB for the vast majority of fights because it'll be more DPS? That just sounds incredibly odd.

[PatChapp]

Originally Posted by Raralith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Assuming the numbers check out, a 2hb tstaff is 1,986 damage vs. Tunare + Vulak weapons are 2,072 damage ignoring procs on both ends and stats you gain. A 50k 2hb from KC vs two incredibly hard to obtain BIS does 4.3% more damage? I'm assuming that doesn't even factor in 2HB weaving? As a new monk player, unless I'm the 1%, I'm basically keeping my 2HB for the vast majority of fights because it'll be more DPS? That just sounds incredibly odd.

2hb is better dps, if your comparing 1%er stuff abashi is going to outdps fon+gains.
If your comparing regular folk weapons,1h do not compare to a fist weaved ifs or even a peacebringer

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2hb is better dps, if your comparing 1%er stuff abashi is going to outdps fon+gains.
If your comparing regular folk weapons,1h do not compare to a fist weaved ifs or even a peacebringer

Thats not to say dw doesn’t work. It does and it works well. It is just 2h works far better. Such is the blessed nature of the monk.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As you can see, you don't need a 1h weapon with a delay of 12 to out DPS a TStaff.

Are you stupid or just careless in your reading comprehension? I’m hoping you’re just so excited to get to your rebuttal that your glaze over posts as you read them.

Either that or you are, sincerely, unintelligent.

What I actually said was that you need a mainhand DELAY of 11 on a level 60 to beat the DAMAGE BONUS potential of a mainhand DELAY of 30 for a 2 handed weapon.

Jesus Christ in a top hat …

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you stupid or just careless in your reading comprehension? I’m hoping you’re just so excited to get to your rebuttal that your glaze over posts as you read them.

Either that or you are, sincerely, unintelligent.

What I actually said was that you need a mainhand DELAY of 11 on a level 60 to beat the DAMAGE BONUS potential of a mainhand DELAY of 30 for a 2 handed weapon.

Jesus Christ in a top hat …

I read it fine. Your point about 11 delay weapons is irrelevant, and I showed why. You simply need to math out the DPS difference between weapons if you want the correct answer. It isn't more complex than that. As you say, the math isn't complicated.

You are just making yourself look foolish, like you always do. Hopefully one day you will realize trolling and insulting others simply hurts your credibity. It doesn't affect me at all.