As a christian.

[long.liam]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Satan as a concept is super cool though so score 1 for Christians

And also score 1 for Mark Twain

I'm a little confused on the whole Satan thing. Sometimes Satan is referred to as a singular entity, like "The Lord of Hell" "Prince of Evil" etc. Other Times Satan referred to just a random adversary, maybe a little demon, or even just some human guy that happens to be pissing someone off.

Personally though I think most modern iterations of evil characters are way more interesting than anything that was historically produced. Most bad guys were pretty one note or very flat. It's way more intriguing to have antagonists with complex personalities and motivations.

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by long.liam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm a little confused on the whole Satan thing. Sometimes Satan is referred to as a singular entity, like "The Lord of Hell" "Prince of Evil" etc. Other Times Satan referred to just a random adversary, maybe a little demon, or even just some human guy that happens to be pissing someone off.

Personally though I think most modern iterations of evil characters are way more interesting than anything that was historically produced. Most bad guys were pretty one note or very flat. It's way more intriguing to have antagonists with complex personalities and motivations.

Watch supernatural, it's heretical, butt there's a complex personality for u

Jealousy of G-d and his Creation(s) is satans MO

he hates humans because G-d loves them and looks after them and gives us a chance at redemption where as Satan thinks we should all be destroyed because we are beyond redemption and imperfect (like "he is perfect").

In other words G-d won't let Satan (the perfect being) into heaven butt he'll let us shitlords in. So Satan has set about his job to turn us towards evil and keep us from everlasting peace and love and keep us locked into this realm of material and death to punish us for being imperfect because G-d won't. Jibartik has a lot to say on this.

Currently Satan rules the earth. So be careful if you don't adress ur prayers to G-d directly u'll probably get him.

Satan only loves himself and he wants g-d's love but will never get it (the way he wants, to be ruler of the universe and destroy all the hooomans), and he wants the ang ***Els (Nephilim) to follow him, and he tolerates them even though they aren't as perfect as him.

It's all very DC/marvel/X-men if ur into that sorta blasphemy. And Idolatry.

[Vormotus]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Watch supernatural, it's heretical, butt there's a complex personality for u

Jealousy of G-d and his Creation(s) is satans MO

he hates humans because G-d loves them and looks after them and gives us a chance at redemption where as Satan thinks we should all be destroyed because we are beyond redemption and imperfect (like "he is perfect").

To be honest, The Adversary is in short a Servant of the Creator that is tasked to incentivize the natural evil inclination native and 100% natural to man, he hates us as much as 0, and in very old hebrew texts he even loathes the job.

The Satan you describe is a modern retelling of the Milton one (which in turn is a further reconstruction of the dark ages adversary, which in turn was a corruption of the Demiruge/Yaldabaoth of the mediterranean gnostics during the 1st Century CE), that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the original idea of the "Enemy" and so abused by Hollywood to be able to give a modicum of backstory to their horror blockbuster films.

This whole notion of demiplanes filled to the brim with demons is also more asian than european, as on this side we actually had quite entertaining and fully flawed gods, godlings and fickle entities.

Christianity on the whole, specially the USA versions that spawned there, are quite frankly literal fanfiction converted into canon (not leaving catholicism behind, which has a metric truckload of bad takes, made to convenience exegesis and a lot of very much human, and not demonic, corruption, greed and need to control behind it).

It is better to be an optmistic nihilist than a fervent believer in a demon spawned hellscape on earth, but again, thats is my own take.

It is honestly entertaining though, and I wish you peace and happiness. Also the internet is not a very good place to discuss these beliefs, as you will find as many adherents as detractors. Not very healthy either.

It is my sincere wish you find peace, both here and in the afterlife you believe in, life is too short to get lost in minutiae of dogma and spend it cloistered behind mental prison bars where only other inmates of the same prison can come visit in.

Be well man, super hug to you.

Again, this is more or less my take, it would be terrible to live in a world where man made demons, like Vancian ones from Dying Earth have rule or sway over creation, but hey, everyone is free to believe in their own backstory of choice.

I fully respect everyones opinion on the issue.

[Landroval]

Originally Posted by Vormotus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To be honest, The Adversary is in short a Servant of the Creator that is tasked to incentivize the natural evil inclination native and 100% natural to man, he hates us as much as 0, and in very old hebrew texts he even loathes the job.

The Satan you describe is a modern retelling of the Milton one (which in turn is a further reconstruction of the dark ages adversary, which in turn was a corruption of the Demiruge/Yaldabaoth of the mediterranean gnostics during the 1st Century CE), that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the original idea of the "Enemy" and so abused by Hollywood to be able to give a modicum of backstory to their horror blockbuster films.

This whole notion of demiplanes filled to the brim with demons is also more asian than european, as on this side we actually had quite entertaining and fully flawed gods, godlings and fickle entities.

Christianity on the whole, specially the USA versions that spawned there, are quite frankly literal fanfiction converted into canon (not leaving catholicism behind, which has a metric truckload of bad takes, made to convenience exegesis and a lot of very much human, and not demonic, corruption, greed and need to control behind it).

It is better to be an optmistic nihilist than a fervent believer in a demon spawned hellscape on earth, but again, thats is my own take.

It is honestly entertaining though, and I wish you peace and happiness. Also the internet is not a very good place to discuss these beliefs, as you will find as many adherents as detractors. Not very healthy either.

It is my sincere wish you find peace, both here and in the afterlife you believe in, life is too short to get lost in minutiae of dogma and spend it cloistered behind mental prison bars where only other inmates of the same prison can come visit in.

Be well man, super hug to you.

Again, this is more or less my take, it would be terrible to live in a world where man made demons, like Vancian ones from Dying Earth have rule or sway over creation, but hey, everyone is free to believe in their own backstory of choice.

I fully respect everyones opinion on the issue.

Speaking of the middle age, have you ever read Nicholas of Cusa? There's quite a few errors and oversights in your synopsis. Ultimately, the mythological structure of Christianity is an evolution of Platonism, Pythagoreanism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism, with a little Hellenism mixed in.

But it goes something like this; in Plato's Theory of Forms, there exists a realm of perfection above this lesser planet of existence where pure and perfected concepts exist in relation to each other as "Forms".

Coming to understand the nature of these Ideals (Forms) can be approached through dialectical reasoning; dialectics of the Grecian sort, not the modern repivot of Hegel et al, mind you.

So we can take a conceptual form like "Pride" and attempt to discern exactly what pride is by assessing how pride is personified or exemplified, and how these exemplifications are projected outward onto others.

Pride is personified in Arrogance and Ignorance. Arrogance is a hautiness or sense of betterness than others, and ignorance is a characteristic which belies a lack of understanding in some arena or another.

We can see Pride is others, but what are the signifiers that point us towards it's identification in those possessing pride?

The mind is a sort of inverse mirror, so we don't actually see a person's arrogance or ignorance directly, in most situations, but we can quickly ascertain a person who is prideful as being prideful so there must be actions or tells the prideful person reveals to us through other venues which tips us off....

The ignorance of pride tips itself off by boasting of its knowledge, which it Lords over others, so if we position pride as central to an axiom, at the Origin, with arrogance and ignorance as neighbors on a pundit square to it's left, then on the square diagonal from Ignorance, Knowledge resides as its inverse or Syzygial opposite

Likewise, if arrogance is a sense of betterness or "strongerness", it's syzygial opposite is weakness, which is cast out by the arrogantly prideful person, onto others, so we identify a person imbibing "Pride" by their Lording of knowledge over others, and their attempts to properly themselves above others who they eschew as Weaker than them.

Arrogance---------\|/--------Knowledge
---------------------Pride-------------------
Ignorance---------/|\---------Weakness

In Pythagoreanism, this construct representing pride is a pyramidal structure with four bases and Pride at the apex of the tetrad.

The same extrapolation can be applied to Shame, in that shame is personified or exemplified as Ignorance and Failure (Sin, missing the mark) and projected as Weakness and Humiliation which the ashamed attempts to ignore.

Ignorance---------\|/---------Weakness
--------------------Shame------------------
Sin(failure)--------/|\--------Humiliation


So the Tetrad of Shame shares to bases with Pride making it only a half-opposite, and modern psychologists would agree that Pride is merely subconsciously repressed Shame, both of which are aspects of Jungian ego.

Proverbs 11:2 states with pride comes disgrace (shame), but with the humble comes Wisdom, thereby showing this relation was already known in wisdom texts of the ancient past.

Humility as a Form can be mapped with the following Pythagorean tetrad:

Strength-----------\|/-------Awareness
-------------------Humility----------------
Humiliation-------/|\----------Patience


And wisdom with the following Tetrad:

Knowledge-------\|/----------Success
-------------------Wisdom---------------
Strength-----------/|\-------Awareness


And these four Tetrads form the base of a higher tetrad; one of the Prime Tetrads in philosophy; Truth

Pride--------------\|/------Wisdom
Weakness-----Truth-------Strength
Shame------------/|\-------Humility

But if we rotate the prime tetrad of Truth 90 degrees to see how Wisdom and Pride relate, or how Shame and Humility relate, we see an interesting relation;

Ignorance-------\|/----------Arrrogance
-------------------Pride---------------
Courage---------/|\-------Knowledge
Courage---------\|/-------Knowledge
------------------Wisdom----------------
Awareness-------/|\---------Strength

The differential between Weakness and Strength amalgamizes into Courage, for prideful and foolhardy courage is a weakness, where as wise and valorous courage is Strength.

Likewise between humility and shame, the amalgamation of strength and weakness becomes Vulnerability, as weakness earnestly sought to the point of failure builds strength through experience.

This means that philosophical Truth and Experience are very closely related, with Experience existing at center on the pyramidal tetrad that lines up with the tetrad of Truth, sharing four bases with Truth, like an octahedron

Octahedron.jpg

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by Vormotus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To be honest, The Adversary is in short a Servant of the Creator that is tasked to incentivize the natural evil inclination native and 100% natural to man, he hates us as much as 0, and in very old hebrew texts he even loathes the job.

The Satan you describe is a modern retelling of the Milton one (which in turn is a further reconstruction of the dark ages adversary, which in turn was a corruption of the Demiruge/Yaldabaoth of the mediterranean gnostics during the 1st Century CE), that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the original idea of the "Enemy" and so abused by Hollywood to be able to give a modicum of backstory to their horror blockbuster films.

This whole notion of demiplanes filled to the brim with demons is also more asian than european, as on this side we actually had quite entertaining and fully flawed gods, godlings and fickle entities.

Christianity on the whole, specially the USA versions that spawned there, are quite frankly literal fanfiction converted into canon (not leaving catholicism behind, which has a metric truckload of bad takes, made to convenience exegesis and a lot of very much human, and not demonic, corruption, greed and need to control behind it).

It is better to be an optmistic nihilist than a fervent believer in a demon spawned hellscape on earth, but again, thats is my own take.

It is honestly entertaining though, and I wish you peace and happiness. Also the internet is not a very good place to discuss these beliefs, as you will find as many adherents as detractors. Not very healthy either.

It is my sincere wish you find peace, both here and in the afterlife you believe in, life is too short to get lost in minutiae of dogma and spend it cloistered behind mental prison bars where only other inmates of the same prison can come visit in.

Be well man, super hug to you.

Again, this is more or less my take, it would be terrible to live in a world where man made demons, like Vancian ones from Dying Earth have rule or sway over creation, but hey, everyone is free to believe in their own backstory of choice.

I fully respect everyones opinion on the issue.

I actually got into this a lot and I don't want to like, totally disagree with your take. However...

I feel like Satan and demons and devils are real. I feel you on the Asian multiverse of demiplanes and heals and heavens and multitudes of evil entities. However science is ironically proving this true with the many univiverses and quantum theory and the mathematic probabilities of holography.

I feel like there is more truth in the Bible and biblical stuff even the bastardized and corrupt Hollywood stuff than just throwing my hands in the air and saying strate up the prophets and angels are aliens.

I believe g-d gives every righteous and genuine Christian who worked hard a choice and in the end we can all personally choose the eternal death of our own egos granted us by G-d. On judgement day. He will also not torment unbelievers in hell eternally against their will.

An unbeliever may choose to do this to themselves. However.

I appreciate the dialogue. Ur just a bit toooo highbrow and knowing for me to fully track.

Biblical stuff works great for a subset of people who really need it and that is what they are capable of (Aussenseiter's pick up sticks, likely at me).

It's part of G-d's plan and so is creepy ass Hollywood.

Like I get where ur coming from maybe. Don't waste hours of ur life on my post history trying to figure out my take. The Bible is supposed to be there to help get ppl on the same page and guide them.

It's many versions should definitely be preserved historically.

[Seducio]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

creepy ass Hollywood

Hollyweird

[Landroval]

Originally Posted by Seducio [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hollyweird

Good one!

[aussenseiter]

Originally Posted by magnetaress [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I actually got into this a lot and I don't want to like, totally disagree with your take. However...

I feel like Satan and demons and devils are real. I feel you on the Asian multiverse of demiplanes and heals and heavens and multitudes of evil entities. However science is ironically proving this true with the many univiverses and quantum theory and the mathematic probabilities of holography.

I feel like there is more truth in the Bible and biblical stuff even the bastardized and corrupt Hollywood stuff than just throwing my hands in the air and saying strate up the prophets and angels are aliens.

I believe g-d gives every righteous and genuine Christian who worked hard a choice and in the end we can all personally choose the eternal death of our own egos granted us by G-d. On judgement day. He will also not torment unbelievers in hell eternally against their will.

An unbeliever may choose to do this to themselves. However.

I appreciate the dialogue. Ur just a bit toooo highbrow and knowing for me to fully track.

Biblical stuff works great for a subset of people who really need it and that is what they are capable of (Aussenseiter's pick up sticks, likely at me).

It's part of G-d's plan and so is creepy ass Hollywood.

Like I get where ur coming from maybe. Don't waste hours of ur life on my post history trying to figure out my take. The Bible is supposed to be there to help get ppl on the same page and guide them.

It's many versions should definitely be preserved historically.

My limited knowledge says Vormotus is claiming to be a Gnostic, or a servant of the Devil in some other fashion.

[Landroval]

Originally Posted by aussenseiter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My limited knowledge says Vormotus is claiming to be a Gnostic, or a servant of the Devil in some other fashion.

The premise of gnosticism is that the goal of existence in samsara (this hellishly false plane of material reality) is escape from samsara, so it takes exactly one successful generation of aspiring gnostics succeeding in that aim with no importance whatsoever in establishing a foothold in samsara as a "church" because all successful gnostics are no longer here, which means that only failed gnostics can remain here to manage a church, which means all the clergy are failures with no ethos whatsoever in commenting and providing guidance, on their own religion, for others to follow.

Catharism resolves this paradox by reserving consolamentum (ritualized purification and absolute abstinence from the continued consumption of matter until death by starvation meets you) for the terminally ill, as a final act of defiance from this fallen material creation.

[Landroval]

At it's heart, gnosticism also detracts from and diminishes the weight of Christ's sacrifice, because it follows in the tradition of the Arian adoptionist perspective (; of Arius) pertaining to Christ's divinity, which implies that the Christ didn't really die on the cross, and that only the mortal shell of the husk the Christ possessed upon baptism died, so there's quite a few paradoxical heresies baked into the metatheology of its doctrine. It's real popular with petulant and recalcitrant edgelords, however.

In my opinion, it's a healthy step toward becoming closer to "Truth", as a sort of attempt to find proof through its disproof, but it's not a good place to "fix" ones views; it's a detour along the path to seeking Christ; a tangent(opposite of adjacent)if you Will.