Lord Nagafen & Lady Vox status (post 52 restriction)

[visage]

Originally Posted by karsten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I will venture to say that regardless of the standards that we have and work to adhere to, both in guild culture and policy, they will A: not be what you want and B: as such not really important to need to justify to you.

The cynical person will sorta puh-puh the idea that we care about who we are as a guild entity, but the fact is that we've got people putting a large number of hours striving towards being both competitive and cool. It won't work all the time, and that is also exacerbated by the fact that we're all on the internet in a relatively consequence-free environment, but the fact remains and I would encourage folks to be prescient of that fact.

You mad bro?

[Fists]

Visage is a cum rag cunt fag. Just sayin.

[visage]

Originally Posted by Fists [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Visage is a cum rag cunt fag. Just sayin.

yeah you mad

[Fists]

Karsten dude, first and foremost I like ya, and enjoyed grouping with you a lot when Kunark first came out. Between Yendor and Skope, I don't see any point they are making that is remotely invalid or unfair. Karsten; your retort is to manipulate every word that someone "bashing" you has said and to turn it around to your favor.

I'll restate what Zenlina said a page ago. TMO does not take bosses from other guilds, we simply follow you guys and compete with you, why not do the same with us? TR and TMO have high numbers, some skilled players, and good gear. No doubt both guilds can and do break into fear, pull ct, and burn him b4 the massive train slaughters everyone. To end a semi pointless rant, you should man up, and play nice, not necessarily by the rules. I raided with this crap guild WI before they went back to live and got absorbed into DA. The best moment I ever had on this server was when Divinity, Trans, WI, IB, DA, and BDA we're all competing for the same CT. Let other guilds compete brew, you'll sleep better at night I swear.

[karsten]

I had a somewhat bigger post made and my comp crashed oh god my life

the main points are:

1. we've all got different versions of what is moral and what isn't, which makes it hard for me to take a person seriously when they appeal to the moral high ground.

2. we've also got different versions of what is fair and what isn't, leading to similar conclusions on my part. In this same vein, we have differing versions of what leapfrogging (for example) is. does it constitute one mob? two? howabout if one guild has 50 at seb entrance and the other guild logs in 50 at trak ledge?

So, to address what you were saying yendor, I understand where you are coming from when you are essentially saying "dude, stop being dicks", yet at the same time I'm somewhat unsure as to how to react, since, again, everyone has their own version of what being a dick means.

I'm somewhat conflict averse, as the people who know me can attest to, but I don't lie down either -- I continue to sense that this is what some of you folks would like us to do. I'm keen on being cool about mobs, which even zeelot can attest to, but sometimes i'm a tad at a loss as to what exactly would make some of you folks happy. Is the moral high ground just sorta sitting back and letting other guilds kill raid mobs? And if we did that, would you be surprised if we still got flamed for somehow becoming magnanimous jerkoffs instead?

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by karsten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. we've all got different versions of what is moral and what isn't, which makes it hard for me to take a person seriously when they appeal to the moral high ground.

I would like to think we are all mature enough to determine the difference between right and wrong here if we stand back and look objectively at the situation and forget about the precious pixels for one damn second.

If you wouldn't want it done to you if you were in another guild's position, then you're not taking the moral high ground. If your first instinct is "well, how can we bend or lawyer the rules in order to still get what we want?" then you're not taking the moral high ground.

Do not sit here and tell me that Xzerion and now you earlier in this thread just held your guild to the expectation that they take the higher road, and then you just came here and backpedaled "welllll... about that.... what IS the higher road REALLY?" or "Well, despite the entire server telling us we're being dicks, that's totally subjective, so that's completely irrelevant and we don't give a shit what you think, we're getting the raid targets and you're not, hahaha!" when you realized that might mean you should stop leapfrogging if you were truly genuine about that statement.

Originally Posted by karsten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2. we've also got different versions of what is fair and what isn't, leading to similar conclusions on my part. In this same vein, we have differing versions of what leapfrogging (for example) is. does it constitute one mob? two? howabout if one guild has 50 at seb entrance and the other guild logs in 50 at trak ledge?

You know precisely what you're doing when you go in to snipe a mob, so stop pretending like you need to have a set of parameters around it. I refuse to believe that you guys have been doing this "whatever it takes" thing for so long that you lack the moral compass to determine what's a dick move or not.

Originally Posted by karsten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

sometimes i'm a tad at a loss as to what exactly would make some of you folks happy. Is the moral high ground just sorta sitting back and letting other guilds kill raid mobs?

No one is saying you need to sit back and let other guilds kill raid mobs. You have completely demonstrated that you have the manpower and will to out-mobilize every other guild (in most cases) on this server to a raid target. Congrats, you win EQ. Well done. That's fine... shame on us for not having the same level of intense desire or commitment or whatever you want to call it.

But when another guild does get their chance to grab something because they were in the right place at the right time, or heaven forbid they manage to out-mobilize you, they shouldn't have to also worry about how TR is going to snipe it out from under them or rules-lawyer the loot away with GM intervention on some technicality because somehow out-mobilizing every other guild to a raid target 95% of the time isn't enough for you that you have to be douchey when someone actually has to gall to take a shot at "one of your mobs".

What the hell is wrong with "Grats guys, you got there first this time... we will beat you next time!" and hanging out to grab the mob in case they fail? Why is it such a slap in the face to the members of your guild that another guild actually formed up or started the pull or whatever the situation is?

Why does it have to be "Well, they have the mob incoming... go outaggro their puller" or "They just pulled the last few FGs, rush Naggy NOW!" or "Run up and be FTE so we can petition for the loot after they do all the work in killing the dragon!"?

Or was it "we expect our members to take the higher road, unless a raid target is involved, then in that case... fuck you all!" Because if it is, fine... but just call it like it is so we don't expect anything more out of you.

You proved you can get the raid mobs with "might makes right". Now my challenge to you (and every guild in the position to do so) is to get the raid mobs while remaining respected by the rest of the server. I know you can do it... I remember IB/DW sitting patiently on Isle 5 waiting for VD to take our first few attempts at the Spiroc Lord. You could have sniped it after we wiped the first time so you could start pulling Isle 6, but you didn't. You gave us our fair shot. Sure it probably wasn't a priority mob for you, but you made a decision to take the higher road there.

We all would just like to see that more often. From all the raid guilds. Respect for the raid force already there. Less trying to bend the rules on technicalities to claim "ownership" to mobs when a raid force was clearly there first. Missing a goddamn raid target is not going to kill you guys, and it would mean a lot more to the players who got to stop worrying about what dick was going to get pulled on them.

Am I telling you to give up raid targets? No. I'm telling you to break off pursuit after another raid force has clearly made their move for one and, next time, do that thing you all pride yourselves on doing and out-mobilize them to the next one. There will always be a next one!

I'll tell you one thing... it would make the server a lot more fun for everyone instead of bleak and miserable, and there will be far more people sticking around on this server longer if logging in and clearing most of Fear just to have TR rush in and gank CT right in front of them didn't continuously sap their will to log in.

[God-King Abacab]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would like to think we are all mature enough to determine the difference between right and wrong here if we stand back and look objectively at the situation and forget about the precious pixels for one damn second.

If you wouldn't want it done to you if you were in another guild's position, then you're not taking the moral high ground. If your first instinct is "well, how can we bend or lawyer the rules in order to still get what we want?" then you're not taking the moral high ground.

Do not sit here and tell me that Xzerion and now you earlier in this thread just held your guild to the expectation that they take the higher road, and then you just came here and backpedaled "welllll... about that.... what IS the higher road REALLY?" or "Well, despite the entire server telling us we're being dicks, that's totally subjective, so that's completely irrelevant and we don't give a shit what you think, we're getting the raid targets and you're not, hahaha!" when you realized that might mean you should stop leapfrogging if you were truly genuine about that statement.



You know precisely what you're doing when you go in to snipe a mob, so stop pretending like you need to have a set of parameters around it. I refuse to believe that you guys have been doing this "whatever it takes" thing for so long that you lack the moral compass to determine what's a dick move or not.



No one is saying you need to sit back and let other guilds kill raid mobs. You have completely demonstrated that you have the manpower and will to out-mobilize every other guild (in most cases) on this server to a raid target. Congrats, you win EQ. Well done. That's fine... shame on us for not having the same level of intense desire or commitment or whatever you want to call it.

But when another guild does get their chance to grab something because they were in the right place at the right time, or heaven forbid they manage to out-mobilize you, they shouldn't have to also worry about how TR is going to snipe it out from under them or rules-lawyer the loot away with GM intervention on some technicality because somehow out-mobilizing every other guild to a raid target 95% of the time isn't enough for you that you have to be douchey when someone actually has to gall to take a shot at "one of your mobs".

What the hell is wrong with "Grats guys, you got there first this time... we will beat you next time!" and hanging out to grab the mob in case they fail? Why is it such a slap in the face to the members of your guild that another guild actually formed up or started the pull or whatever the situation is?

Why does it have to be "Well, they have the mob incoming... go outaggro their puller" or "They just pulled the last few FGs, rush Naggy NOW!" or "Run up and be FTE so we can petition for the loot after they do all the work in killing the dragon!"?

Or was it "we expect our members to take the higher road, unless a raid target is involved, then in that case... fuck you all!" Because if it is, fine... but just call it like it is so we don't expect anything more out of you.

You proved you can get the raid mobs with "might makes right". Now my challenge to you (and every guild in the position to do so) is to get the raid mobs while remaining respected by the rest of the server. I know you can do it... I remember IB/DW sitting patiently on Isle 5 waiting for VD to take our first few attempts at the Spiroc Lord. You could have sniped it after we wiped the first time so you could start pulling Isle 6, but you didn't. You gave us our fair shot. Sure it probably wasn't a priority mob for you, but you made a decision to take the higher road there.

We all would just like to see that more often. From all the raid guilds. Respect for the raid force already there. Less trying to bend the rules on technicalities to claim "ownership" to mobs when a raid force was clearly there first. Missing a goddamn raid target is not going to kill you guys, and it would mean a lot more to the players who got to stop worrying about what dick was going to get pulled on them.

Am I telling you to give up raid targets? No. I'm telling you to break off pursuit after another raid force has clearly made their move for one and, next time, do that thing you all pride yourselves on doing and out-mobilize them to the next one. There will always be a next one!

I'll tell you one thing... it would make the server a lot more fun for everyone instead of bleak and miserable, and there will be far more people sticking around on this server longer if logging in and clearing most of Fear just to have TR rush in and gank CT right in front of them didn't continuously sap their will to log in.

This happened on live back in the day, this happens on the progression servers, this happens here. There is no real repercussion for abhorrent behavior because there is no need to be involved in the community outside your own guild. So you'll get groups of people attempting to out play another group by any means necessary be it legit or not.

But this shit never happened on the PvP servers, because you could regulate the situation. You gave it your all and if you managed to dislodge your rival from the zone then congratulations you eliminated their ability to mess up your raid by sending them right back to East Commons. This however cannot happen here, you cannot protect your assests and will always be at the mercy of a train or a snipe because you cannot enforce your right of attempt

[Grahm]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would like to think we are all mature enough to determine the difference between right and wrong here if we stand back and look objectively at the situation and forget about the precious pixels for one damn second.

If you wouldn't want it done to you if you were in another guild's position, then you're not taking the moral high ground. If your first instinct is "well, how can we bend or lawyer the rules in order to still get what we want?" then you're not taking the moral high ground.

Do not sit here and tell me that Xzerion and now you earlier in this thread just held your guild to the expectation that they take the higher road, and then you just came here and backpedaled "welllll... about that.... what IS the higher road REALLY?" or "Well, despite the entire server telling us we're being dicks, that's totally subjective, so that's completely irrelevant and we don't give a shit what you think, we're getting the raid targets and you're not, hahaha!" when you realized that might mean you should stop leapfrogging if you were truly genuine about that statement.



You know precisely what you're doing when you go in to snipe a mob, so stop pretending like you need to have a set of parameters around it. I refuse to believe that you guys have been doing this "whatever it takes" thing for so long that you lack the moral compass to determine what's a dick move or not.



No one is saying you need to sit back and let other guilds kill raid mobs. You have completely demonstrated that you have the manpower and will to out-mobilize every other guild (in most cases) on this server to a raid target. Congrats, you win EQ. Well done. That's fine... shame on us for not having the same level of intense desire or commitment or whatever you want to call it.

But when another guild does get their chance to grab something because they were in the right place at the right time, or heaven forbid they manage to out-mobilize you, they shouldn't have to also worry about how TR is going to snipe it out from under them or rules-lawyer the loot away with GM intervention on some technicality because somehow out-mobilizing every other guild to a raid target 95% of the time isn't enough for you that you have to be douchey when someone actually has to gall to take a shot at "one of your mobs".

What the hell is wrong with "Grats guys, you got there first this time... we will beat you next time!" and hanging out to grab the mob in case they fail? Why is it such a slap in the face to the members of your guild that another guild actually formed up or started the pull or whatever the situation is?

Why does it have to be "Well, they have the mob incoming... go outaggro their puller" or "They just pulled the last few FGs, rush Naggy NOW!" or "Run up and be FTE so we can petition for the loot after they do all the work in killing the dragon!"?

Or was it "we expect our members to take the higher road, unless a raid target is involved, then in that case... fuck you all!" Because if it is, fine... but just call it like it is so we don't expect anything more out of you.

You proved you can get the raid mobs with "might makes right". Now my challenge to you (and every guild in the position to do so) is to get the raid mobs while remaining respected by the rest of the server. I know you can do it... I remember IB/DW sitting patiently on Isle 5 waiting for VD to take our first few attempts at the Spiroc Lord. You could have sniped it after we wiped the first time so you could start pulling Isle 6, but you didn't. You gave us our fair shot. Sure it probably wasn't a priority mob for you, but you made a decision to take the higher road there.

We all would just like to see that more often. From all the raid guilds. Respect for the raid force already there. Less trying to bend the rules on technicalities to claim "ownership" to mobs when a raid force was clearly there first. Missing a goddamn raid target is not going to kill you guys, and it would mean a lot more to the players who got to stop worrying about what dick was going to get pulled on them.

Am I telling you to give up raid targets? No. I'm telling you to break off pursuit after another raid force has clearly made their move for one and, next time, do that thing you all pride yourselves on doing and out-mobilize them to the next one. There will always be a next one!

I'll tell you one thing... it would make the server a lot more fun for everyone instead of bleak and miserable, and there will be far more people sticking around on this server longer if logging in and clearing most of Fear just to have TR rush in and gank CT right in front of them didn't continuously sap their will to log in.

Tell you one thing...Its sad you have to post this,

One more thing....It's even more sad it's true

[Dravingar]

Originally Posted by Fists [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The best moment I ever had on this server was when Divinity, Trans, WI, IB, DA, and BDA we're all competing for the same CT. Let other guilds compete brew, you'll sleep better at night I swear.

They still can compete, they just have to adapt to the way this server works which is FTE not hand holding we got some people in the zone, so let us have the mob uncontested.

As for TMO, I remember way back when I was in them, we joined up with DA to try for a CT kill where we would not get a single piece of loot just for the fact that it would be spiting IB/DW. Classy stuff indeed.

[Gwence]

Man with all this negative publicity to TR you'd think we'd be hurting. Oh wait, their's like 20 people that read rnf. The funny part about this is all the hate from these other guilds yet if I copied and pasted our app page right now you'd all see a couple people from TMO, a few from Divinity, a couple BDA, some Taken.. etc etc

When more content is released we can seperate ourselves more and this will become a non issue.

I have no hatred for anyone on the server or any guild, I realize everyone just wants to be able to kill bosses because it's fun, but at the same time TR is out to get as much as they can, not necessarily by whatever means they can, but if it isn't against the rules, we're not the type of guild that will stand back and give a mob to someone else. Kudos on all you "noble" folks that will.