Effective Necro Combat Techniques

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by SupaflyIRL [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a pretty terrible tactic as opposed to pulling with darkness, fearing, doting and leeching when your hp drops and FDing to let pet tank for the rest of the fight while you med. You're standing to cast snare/fear/dots and medding, then standing to FD and medding after that. If you're constantly casting shadow compact to heal pet you're going to be constantly leeching to regain HP which is the least efficient method of damage available to you.

it's how you kill 4 seafuries at once, while you are root / rotting the other 3. If you are aggro kiting you're running more than you are sitting. If you are fear kiting you lose the 1 key aspect of necro : control over mob. Obviously some places are more conducive to fear kiting than others (factoring in pathing, roamers, etc) but especially at lower levels unless the target is undead you'll drain more mana casting fear than you'd lose tossing an extra dot while aggro kiting to make up for the dps loss of a moved/nonfeared mob.

Probably the main reason pet tanking + tap tanking is being advocated a bit here is the level range of the island we're discussing.. at 44 necros get DMF, pact of shadow, and a pet who can finally take some hits. Pet dmg, heals, , along with taps are unresistable damage/survivability. When your other option is Venom of the Snake and Assy Toes and getting dooming darkness to stick while spamming fear... well.. lets just say we'll have differing opinions on whats 'efficient' for both the seasoned and up'n'coming necro.

[SupaflyIRL]

Originally Posted by Bubbles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it's how you kill 4 seafuries at once, while you are root / rotting the other 3. If you are aggro kiting you're running more than you are sitting. If you are fear kiting you lose the 1 key aspect of necro : control over mob. Obviously some places are more conducive to fear kiting than others (factoring in pathing, roamers, etc) but especially at lower levels unless the target is undead you'll drain more mana casting fear than you'd lose tossing an extra dot while aggro kiting to make up for the dps loss of a moved/nonfeared mob.

Probably the main reason pet tanking + tap tanking is being advocated a bit here is the level range of the island we're discussing.. at 44 necros get DMF, pact of shadow, and a pet who can finally take some hits. Pet dmg, heals, , along with taps are unresistable damage/survivability. When your other option is Venom of the Snake and Assy Toes and getting dooming darkness to stick while spamming fear... well.. lets just say we'll have differing opinions on whats 'efficient' for both the seasoned and up'n'coming necro.

You shouldn't be casting anything but the appropriate level boil blood/life drain dots at lvl 44 on seafuries due to the negative resist check, venom of the snake will be resisted about 2/3 times at that level on the mid to higher level cyclopses and asystole is worthless to begin with. The #1 key aspect of a necro is not control over the mob its efficiency and mana regen. Why would you even need "control over the mob" like fearing is some kind of death trap in an outdoor area like that.

Also, that section on "throwing an extra dot" while aggro kiting is retarded, you waste way more mana aggro kiting and casting an extra dot than you do sitting for the duration of a 100 mana fear, or a 60 mana FD to let your pet finish the mob off. The goal of a successful kill for a necro is to remain sitting for the largest percentage of the kill as is possible.

[knottyb0y]

Originally Posted by Bubbles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you are fear kiting you lose the 1 key aspect of necro : control over mob.

Very good point. I feel like fear kiting is effective when you are fighting something too powerful for you, am I correct in this assumption?

Originally Posted by Bubbles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Probably the main reason pet tanking + tap tanking is being advocated a bit here is the level range of the island we're discussing.. at 44 necros get DMF, pact of shadow, and a pet who can finally take some hits. Pet dmg, heals, , along with taps are unresistable damage/survivability.

So is tap tanking a viable option in say a dungeon. I have been toying with the idea of focusing my gear primarily towards AC and +HP with +mana and INT secondary. The question is would the boost in HP and AC combined with your Lifetap Over Time spells and lifetap dds be a decent way to take out a camp or exp grind on. I would imagine rooting the mob would be useful for when you need to back off and get mana/hp. I guess the idea is that your tap spells aren't 100% mana efficient if you are at full hp, and I don't know this for sure, but our pets aren't viable tanks(correct me if I'm wrong). By spreading the love between your pet and your hp and landing some taps it seems like you might be pretty efficient.

just a thought.

[SupaflyIRL]

Originally Posted by knottyb0y [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Very good point. I feel like fear kiting is effective when you are fighting something too powerful for you, am I correct in this assumption?

Fear Kiting:

Pros - Full dot damage, full pet damage, can med while doing this
Cons - Mob runs around

Root Rotting:

Pros - Full dot damage, Mob stationary, can med
Cons - May have to periodically back pet out if root is breaking/is getting beat on

Aggro Kiting:

Pros - Control where mob goes, full pet damage
Cons - cannot med, reduced dps (both of these together are entirely unacceptable imo)

Drain Tanking:

Pros - Full dot damage, full pet damage, mob stationary
Cons - Full YOU damage, interrupts (reduced dps/efficiency), cannot med, have to focus on inefficient drain spells, "if you can tank it your pet can tank it"

Fear > Root > Aggro > Drain Tank

Basically, if you can control the "mob runs around" part fear kiting is ALWAYS option 1

[Humwawa]

Originally Posted by SupaflyIRL [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aggro Kiting:

Pros - Control where mob goes, full pet damage
Cons - cannot med, reduced dps (both of these together are entirely unacceptable imo)

Bold portion is untrue. I did forget about the "newly added" dot damage reduction while kiting, however.

[SupaflyIRL]

Originally Posted by Humwawa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bold portion is untrue. I did forget about the "newly added" dot damage reduction while kiting, however.

counting to 5 over and over again for a couple hours is the very definition of tedious. I do it when I have to but would probably go insane using it as my primary method of mana regen.

[Humwawa]

Efficiency is almost by definition boring. It is what it is.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by SupaflyIRL [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You shouldn't be casting anything but the appropriate level boil blood/life drain dots at lvl 44 on seafuries due to the negative resist check, venom of the snake will be resisted about 2/3 times at that level on the mid to higher level cyclopses and asystole is worthless to begin with. The #1 key aspect of a necro is not control over the mob its efficiency and mana regen. Why would you even need "control over the mob" like fearing is some kind of death trap in an outdoor area like that.

we agree that anything MR or poison/disease based isn't efficient mana use. However fear-kiting relies on fear + darkness.. both mr based, and very, very little dmg for the mana spent. I'll grant you pet tanking doesnt really shine until 49 when bond of death allows for a lot more pacts to be cast without a strain on your hps.

As for mana regen, necros have it darn good. as far as 'control' goes, i'll delve into it in my next post, which deals with xp areas. Anyone fear kiting is doing so outdoors and with the absence of a solid ZEM. Which doenst lend to efficiency at all.

Originally Posted by SupaflyIRL [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, that section on "throwing an extra dot" while aggro kiting is retarded, you waste way more mana aggro kiting and casting an extra dot than you do sitting for the duration of a 100 mana fear, or a 60 mana FD to let your pet finish the mob off. The goal of a successful kill for a necro is to remain sitting for the largest percentage of the kill as is possible.

And you're the one wasting mana on fear + a low dmg dooming darkness. If i need to chain fear and darkness for the privilege of sitting, then i'm not exactly 'winning' am i? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by knottyb0y [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Very good point. I feel like fear kiting is effective when you are fighting something too powerful for you, am I correct in this assumption?

Yeah, fear kiting is for mobs that simply hit way too hard for your pet (or you) to handle. Whats weird is what a lot of people remember from live: necro + rogue/ranger/monk/dps fear-kite duo isn't nearly as effective here with smaller hit boxes and faster (even when snared) moving mobs. Most necros i've seen (myself included) generally when duoing with a melee usually just treat the melee like a pet and pact to keep the melee alive while dots n pet do the rest of the non-pc dps. Monks are especially good for that task.

Originally Posted by knottyb0y [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So is tap tanking a viable option in say a dungeon. I have been toying with the idea of focusing my gear primarily towards AC and +HP with +mana and INT secondary. The question is would the boost in HP and AC combined with your Lifetap Over Time spells and lifetap dds be a decent way to take out a camp or exp grind on. I would imagine rooting the mob would be useful for when you need to back off and get mana/hp. I guess the idea is that your tap spells aren't 100% mana efficient if you are at full hp, and I don't know this for sure, but our pets aren't viable tanks(correct me if I'm wrong). By spreading the love between your pet and your hp and landing some taps it seems like you might be pretty efficient.

just a thought.

AC is capped pretty low for cloth wearers. HPs are the most important stat though, by far, since your Hit points are the basis for your mana regen, as well as what you use when you take hits for your pet, take hits while you deal with snare/fear/root resists. and what you draw off of pacting healing to your pet or another player.

You will always do well to keep hps as high as possible. HP (not STA) gear is preferable since STA - hp ratio for casters is something silly like 2-1 to maybe 3-1 at 60... simply put, you'll always do far better getting +hp items vs. +sta items if your goal is higher max hps.

Basic hp gear worth buying:
Plat Fire Wedding Rings (5ac/55 hps) jewelcrafted
Cloak of the Icebear? (8ac 10hps)
Carved Ivory mask (2ac 4agi 10hps)
Golden Jaded Bracelets (2ac 15hp 15 mana) jewelcrafted
Kobold Hide Boots (5ac 3agi 10 hps)

Higher level hp gear worth having:
Hooded Black Cloak (8ac 5str 45hps)
Djarn's Ring (9agi 80hps)
Black Sapphire Electrum Earrings (2ac 35 hps 25 mana)
Black Sapphire Platinum Necklace (55hp / 55mana)
Rokkyls Channeling Crystal (50hps, other less important stuff)
Staff of the Waterwalker (2hb +100hps, other stats)
Idol of the Thorned (10ac 7str 10sta)

is a basic rundown.

as for the rest of your post:

Tap spells arent royally efficient.. BUT. they are 100% unresistable so it's not as bad as you think. Your undead DD line is also very good at hitting at at or near max, as well.

You'll have to learn dungeons on your own. Everyone does dungeons their own way. Remember that root is your friend, lulls are good, but duoing with a Monk/SK/Enc/CLR type that can split easier than you can and add heals/dps/etc is even easier.. just because you can solo doesn't mean it's the best road. I've always found duoing to be the xp sweet spot of safety + constant killing, without 5 other ppl to roll against.. Honestly, anytime you have more than 3-4 ppl in a group there's always 1 or 2 afk and it's rarely as efficient as it should be.

Above all else. Bertoxx gave you root, feign, a pet, and harmshield for a reason. Never feel bad about trying something that doesnt work out and having to feign, resummon a pet and start all over. Other classes die, you get the luxury of learning without paying the penalty. In my experience, you will find a small group of people you enjoy duoing/trioing with and that's what will keep bringing back to log in and have fun. Soloing is boring, and anything in a dungeon is safer as well as more fun and rewarding with a buddy or two. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Bubbles]

@TR Spokesman -- My #1 pet peeve was trying to loot furries in water, so i hated having them over the ocean when it was time to finish them off. That's a personal annoyance of mine tho. Generally i always did furies for loot first and xp second. I hated the thought of losing even once corpse to my laziness heh.

I also never thought to charm a spec. That would have been pretty boss back in the day when charm was uber. Course back then there was always a druid or wiz quadding the specs.

As for Athiyk.. I agree with basically everything he says. He's much better at wording when it comes to this stuff than i'll ever be.