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Old 08-10-2011, 06:56 PM
Loke Loke is offline
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Originally Posted by Pico [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
except businesses are in it for the bottom line. the government is in it to keep their people healthy.

or you can keep believing the govt is trying to trick you into buying their healthcare in order to make billions... to... provide you with healthcare...
Yes, because our government is clearly a bastion of altruistic actions. If you want to live in a baby state and have the government provide for you, so be it - I on the other hand prefer the freedom to make my own choices and live my life as I see fit.

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it follows that this liberty of each, limited by the like liberties of all, is the rule in conformity with which all society must be organized. Freedom being the pre-requisite to normal life in the individual, equal freedom becomes the pre-requisite to normal life in society. And if this law of equal freedom is the primary law of right relationship between man and man, then no desire to get fulfilled a secondary law can warrant us in breaking it.
Spencer was a smart guy. To infringe upon the liberty of select individuals for the monetary benefit of others is morally reprehensible. The only instance in which it is socially acceptable to limit individual liberty is when that individual liberty restricts the liberty of others. With that being said, social programs do not apply due to the fact that they limit the liberty of some with no benefit to the notion of over all equal liberty. Again, the focus here is not on general equality, but equality of freedom.
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:03 PM
Barkingturtle Barkingturtle is offline
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Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
If you want to live in a baby state and have the government provide for you, so be it - I on the other hand prefer the freedom to make my own choices and live my life as I see fit.
Or at least you'd rather delude yourself into believing you make your own big boy choices. The rest of your post was just as trite, if not moreso. You sound less like a dude who took an intro to philosophy class and more like a chick trying to impress said dude.
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:22 PM
Skope Skope is offline
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[QUOTE=Loke;359459Spencer was a smart guy. To infringe upon the liberty of select individuals for the monetary benefit of others is morally reprehensible. The only instance in which it is socially acceptable to limit individual liberty is when that individual liberty restricts the liberty of others. With that being said, social programs do not apply due to the fact that they limit the liberty of some with no benefit to the notion of over all equal liberty. Again, the focus here is not on general equality, but equality of freedom.[/QUOTE]

"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" and I interpret "Life" to include health. If i'm sick and starving, riddled with malignant tumors and in exchange for health and well-being I had to give up my right to vote then you can have it. The human condition (and all living creatures) at its core is defined by the will to survive and pass on your genes, the notion of freedom only comes as an afterthought.

The biggest reasons for the lack of national healthcare are the fact that the entire medical and health industry is treated as a cash cow by middle-men (insurance companies, mainly), hospitals being run as fortune 500 companies and the absolutely insane amount of money that hospitals, employees and private doctor's offices pay for insurance.

Then there's http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...th-of-new-meds and it's shit like that that actually makes you physically ill when reading. Researchers hands are tied because they're afraid of strict legislation and the stringent requirements to get to the point where the medication can be prescribed by doctors to patients nationwide; a failure results in millions and billions of dollars lost in investment <~~ doesn't help. This isn't just a flaw in over-regulation by government, or one of the obvious downsides of capitalism, but the way we approach medical care as a nation.

Treating it like a business means you'll always have gaping holes. The benefits to creating a pill that can ease patients' issues with schizophrenia sounds fantastic until you see the bill and realize that the market isn't big enough (not enough people diagnosed with the disease) and/or it's too damn complicated to pursue. A business doesn't willingly put itself in the red for the sake of a small group of people; not unless it wants to fail. On the other hand, the government regulations are a direct hyper-response to lawsuits, and many of them frivolous, in order to cover everyone's ass. They often overreact because people don't understand how complicated biology and the human body really are, and in the end everyone gets fucked. But there's a reason why healthcare costs are so much more higher here than elsewhere in the developed world: the obvious correlation between the american instinct to sue and the rise of healthcare costs.
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