Hate recalc

[Uthgaard]

All spell aggro has been reduced to the point that aggro management for casters is trivial. Spell aggro was too high before, but now it's way too little.

So pets and warriors can hold aggro like ubertanks, and casters don't need to worry about pulling aggro with heals, slows, or debuffs landing too soon.

But anyone like hyrbids, relying on spellcasts to gain aggro from other melees, is heavily underperforming right now. And these should be able to snap aggro. This was classic.

Some spell values for aggro might be more in line with each other now, but they're not in sync with melee threat or taunt values. So the system is out of balance.

I think there was some confusion about hate values being added to certain spells later (these were negative hate values added to offset an unintended increase to threat caused somewhere down the line). There are dev podcasts out there that explain why these were added. But spells with disease counters and debuffs always did generate significant hate, this is well documented, and they should be yielding more than they are currently.

An SK pet 15 levels under its caster should not be able to hold aggro securely from an that SK while they are spamming spells on a mob.

The weak shm pet should not instantly pick up slowed and maloed mobs with 3 dots ticking.

This is kind of a gamebreaking balance change.

[long.liam]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All spell aggro has been reduced to the point that aggro management for casters is trivial. Spell aggro was too high before, but now it's way too little.

So pets and warriors can hold aggro like ubertanks, and casters don't need to worry about pulling aggro with heals, slows, or debuffs landing too soon.

But anyone like hyrbids, relying on spellcasts to gain aggro from other melees, is heavily underperforming right now. And these should be able to snap aggro. This was classic.

Some spell values for aggro might be more in line with each other now, but they're not in sync with melee threat or taunt values. So the system is out of balance.

I think there was some confusion about hate values being added to certain spells later (these were negative hate values added to offset an unintended increase to threat caused somewhere down the line). There are dev podcasts out there that explain why these were added. But spells with disease counters and debuffs always did generate significant hate, this is well documented, and they should be yielding more than they are currently.

An SK pet 15 levels under its caster should not be able to hold aggro securely from an that SK while they are spamming spells on a mob.

The weak shm pet should not instantly pick up slowed and maloed mobs with 3 dots ticking.

This is kind of a gamebreaking balance change.

I tested it with brother on the blue server. All Disease and poison counter hate has been removed. Only the damage from Dots produces any hate. The SPAs (SPell Affects) like Blind, Stun, Snare, slow etc.. All produced hate based off of Mob HP. It's the mobs/15 up to a Cap of 1200 for spells and 400 for proc/clickie. We tested this and found this to be true. My brother's 60 druid struggled to hold aggro on mistmoore mobs with Flamelick & Snare while powerleveling my level 25 paladin. However, on the 2 guards in Paineel, Guard Heridion and Guard Menbuknar, His snare or flamelick or any SPA produced 1200 hate per cast.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

aggro management for casters is trivial. Spell aggro was too high before, but now it's way too little.

So pets and warriors can hold aggro like ubertanks, and casters don't need to worry about pulling aggro with heals, slows, or debuffs landing too soon.

Lol, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Warrior aggro is basically negligible. Enchanters and shamans (and druids when they're doing real work) are getting murdered after 2 slow attempts. It's miserable for them and the tanks.

Slow aggro on a proccing weapon seems to be almost nil. Slow aggro from a shm/enc is wayyyy higher than anything a warrior can do, even after waiting until the mob is like 80%

READ THIS PLEASE.

[Octavian]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Warrior aggro is basically negligible. Enchanters and shamans (and druids when they're doing real work) are getting murdered after 2 slow attempts. It's miserable for them and the tanks.

Slow aggro on a proccing weapon seems to be almost nil. Slow aggro from a shm/enc is wayyyy higher than anything a warrior can do, even after waiting until the mob is like 80%

READ THIS PLEASE.

Everything about this situation (and I'll add the disease cloud/shadow vortex break as well) feels desperately in need of being reverted to how it was pre-patch. Yet, is there talk of this happening? Do they realize how completely broken aggro is now? And how utterly useless SK's have become?

If the logic is "do what the live devs did," then take a look at the whole timeline of EQ, where SK's received several lines of different aggro spells to make them the absolute, undisputed kings of snap aggro, as they were always meant to be.

I was on my 60 SK last night trying to help a group of lowbies by tanking for them bc they didn't have one. The humiliation when I couldn't keep aggro off a bunch of lvl 25-30's spamming disease cloud/shadow vortex.

So what... SK's are supposed to rely on their taunt now? Right...

[Malk]

Originally Posted by Octavian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

SK's are supposed to rely on their taunt now? Right...

Warriors be like

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[Infectious]

Originally Posted by Octavian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everything about this situation (and I'll add the disease cloud/shadow vortex break as well) feels desperately in need of being reverted to how it was pre-patch. Yet, is there talk of this happening? Do they realize how completely broken aggro is now? And how utterly useless SK's have become?

If the logic is "do what the live devs did," then take a look at the whole timeline of EQ, where SK's received several lines of different aggro spells to make them the absolute, undisputed kings of snap aggro, as they were always meant to be.

I was on my 60 SK last night trying to help a group of lowbies by tanking for them bc they didn't have one. The humiliation when I couldn't keep aggro off a bunch of lvl 25-30's spamming disease cloud/shadow vortex.

So what... SK's are supposed to rely on their taunt now? Right...

This is a free server, ran by humans that spend their hard time offering a free game. Why don't you calm down buddy and if you don't like it, leave! I personally love the changes and have been keeping aggro no problem. This isn't wow where you have a " pull aggro" button. Learn to communicate with your group members.

[Trexller]

Originally Posted by Infectious [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a free server, ran by humans that spend their hard time offering a free game. Why don't you calm down buddy and if you don't like it, leave! I personally love the changes and have been keeping aggro no problem. This isn't wow where you have a " pull aggro" button. Learn to communicate with your group members.

lets get real here, the game is free because it is illegal for them to make money off of it.

obviously we all appreciate the work the staff does. but does or should their altruistic labor of love shield them from all criticism? I propose it does not.

these p99 devs have heard alot worse than, "wahh a game mechanic got broke", and they have thick skin. They tolerate a lot of staff bashing up to some line where shit gets real I guess.

Now, if you're a game developer, and when something goes wrong in your game and all your players get pissed, and express that they are pissed, that means that they like your game, and care about it.

If nobody got pissed when your game broke then it means your game sucks and nobody cares that it broke.

The internet is no place for amenable meekness, and every single one of us knows it.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Octavian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yet, is there talk of this happening? Do they realize how completely broken aggro is now?

This bears repeating: The senior developers don't play on P1999 insofar as we know, and we have little reason to believe they're even aware that there's a problem, let alone how severe it is. At least I haven't seen 'em post anything on the forum. Can't get fixes until we first get their attention.

Danth

[Ooloo]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This bears repeating: The senior developers don't play on P1999 insofar as we know, and we have little reason to believe they're even aware that there's a problem, let alone how severe it is. At least I haven't seen 'em post anything on the forum. Can't get fixes until we first get their attention.

Danth

I'm sure they at least test changes in some kind of private environment. It would be nonsensical to simply write code for something and not actually test what you're doing.

[Danth]

Yeah, they do, but that's a common enough story: You test your changes on your developmental server, everything seems fine, patch it to the production server and something somewhere doesn't work quite right. Happens all the time.