How about...(raidmobs)

[Loke]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see how 100% variance will eliminate poopsocking between two guilds who have already demonstrated they will do whatever it takes to kill the target first. And if that means poopsocking longer because the spawn window is greater, then that's what it will boil down to until you burn everyone in your guilds out until you can no longer muster a raid force, and then you'll have to merge/mass-recruit again.

As was said above, the only way to fix this is to change the attitudes. VP is not important. The world will not end if someone else gets a raid target. People won't remember what pixels you had.

I disagree, you realize that they'd have to spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week on every spawn they wanted to poopsock? I'm as hard core as the next power gamer, but that simply isn't possible. Even with the 15 man rule that would mean 15 people actively online in one spot for.. well, ever. I'm willing to bet 100k that no guild would do that. What would happen is guilds would find a location that they feel allowed them the quickest access to the mobs they want. Maybe people would camp down in trak's lair, but unless they plan on spending every waking second down there for the rest of the time they play here, they're going to leave eventually. I honestly think it would force guilds into mobilization more - while Trak's lair might be the home base for guilds to mobilize from, the poopsocking would have to essentially end.

[Mezzmur]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree, you realize that they'd have to spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week on every spawn they wanted to poopsock? I'm as hard core as the next power gamer, but that simply isn't possible. Even with the 15 man rule that would mean 15 people actively online in one spot for.. well, ever. I'm willing to bet 100k that no guild would do that. What would happen is guilds would find a location that they feel allowed them the quickest access to the mobs they want. Maybe people would camp down in trak's lair, but unless they plan on spending every waking second down there for the rest of the time they play here, they're going to leave eventually. I honestly think it would force guilds into mobilization more - while Trak's lair might be the home base for guilds to mobilize from, the poopsocking would have to essentially end.

One thing people miss is that 95% of TMO and TR do camp on the ledge. You usually have 1-3 people watching the spawn and sometimes people doing reets/juggs.

Most people go afk, wait for batphone or play alts. Of all the kills TMO have been involved in, only 1 was spawn-socking and it was because Trak was down to the last 6 hours of his spawn window. At that point, the probability is so high, everyone was just sitting and waiting.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree, you realize that they'd have to spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week on every spawn they wanted to poopsock? I'm as hard core as the next power gamer, but that simply isn't possible. Even with the 15 man rule that would mean 15 people actively online in one spot for.. well, ever. I'm willing to bet 100k that no guild would do that. What would happen is guilds would find a location that they feel allowed them the quickest access to the mobs they want. Maybe people would camp down in trak's lair, but unless they plan on spending every waking second down there for the rest of the time they play here, they're going to leave eventually. I honestly think it would force guilds into mobilization more - while Trak's lair might be the home base for guilds to mobilize from, the poopsocking would have to essentially end.

No, because you will get the same escalation from the "Must deny other guild, must get target ourselves at all costs" mentality that currently exists.

You start with mobilization. One guild is better at it than others, so the other guild says "Welp, we want to beat them to the raid targets, and we know they're all camped at the ledge, so we will poopsock in-game to beat them."

So then the "competition" changes from "who can mobilize faster", which TR wants to compete on (obviously because they have the advantage there), to "who can kill the raid target". Then, TR's advantage is removed and they invariably troll the other guild for not being able to out-mobilize them. But the game is about who kills the target and gets the loot, not a game of "who can race to their computers and log in their fully buffed raid force first upon batphone signal". TR tried to make the competition about that because that is their forte. In reality, it all comes down to who gets the kill.

So the poopsocking starts, and then TR realizes they're at a disadvantage unless they do the same thing. So they start poopsocking, too. But because the prevalent attitude is "VP is the end goal, loot > all, deny the other guild at all costs", then you can't afford to not be there poopsocking along with the other guild. Regardless of the variance.

Because you're not going to sit there and tell me there's some magical % variance that guilds will automatically stop poopsocking the primary target that they want to kill before the other guild at all costs. Because "more time invested yields greater rewards" is still hard-wired into your brains.

So then both guilds are back at poopsocking, trying to get the mob engaged before the other guild as soon as it spawns. You can't afford not to be there if another guild is willing to poopsock at 50%, 75%, or even 100% variance. One accuses the other of creating the poopsocking situation, when in reality it was just a normal response to "do what it takes to get the mob before the other guys do". They aren't going to compete against TR at mobilization. Why should they? They'd rather force TR into a Mexican poopsock standoff and try to burn TR out before they get burnt out.

Then, the first guild that gets burned out has to merge/mass-recruit and the other guild's response is to immediately brand them as zerglings.

Then that other guild realizes they are no longer competitive because they just burnt a subset of their guild out during Poopsock Wars II: The Feces Strikes Back. Then THEY have to merge/mass-recruit.

And then the cycle begins again, burning people out faster than should be normal because the mentalities of both guilds require them both to not stand down and yield raid targets to the other guild. Ever wonder why we're still around 750 players online prime time? Probably because this server can never grow past that critical mass due to the tier 1 guilds creating situations against each other that burn players out. How awesome is that for the health of the server? Great job, munchkins.

[Alarti0001]

This is EQ not WOW why are we talking about trak dropping 15-50 keys. On live there were many guilds who never saw VP until luclin or later.

If you want VP keys get your guild, or get in a guild that can take trak.
Everything shouldn't be handed to you.

Trak today TR was killing juggs with about 15 and TMO had maybe 8 on tracking or afk. No one was on spawn... problem solved... lets move on.

[Loke]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lots

If you seriously think there is anyone who is willing to spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week sitting on a spawn, you're delusional. You realize that is what someone would have to do to poopsock with a 100% variance right? I feel this is a pretty simple concept.

Just yes or no, do you sincerely believe either guild is willing to spend the rest of their natural lives logged in sitting at trak's spawn point? If so, maybe us power gamers aren't the ones with the fucked up perspective here lol.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you seriously think there is anyone who is willing to spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week sitting on a spawn, you're delusional. You realize that is what someone would have to do to poopsock with a 100% variance right? I feel this is a pretty simple concept.

Just yes or no, do you sincerely believe either guild is willing to spend the rest of their natural lives logged in sitting at trak's spawn point? If so, maybe us power gamers aren't the ones with the fucked up perspective here lol.

Yes. Based on what the "whatever it takes to get the trak teeth" attitude we've seen so far here, I absolutely believe it will escalate to one guild starting to poopsock the mob after it dies in case it spawns back to back, and causing the other guild to respond by poopsocking because in their minds they can't afford to let the other guild have Trakanon.

YOU personally might not do it, but has either guild given any of us a reason to believe that this would not happen? Has either guild backed down? Has either guild said anything but "Yeah, poopsocking sucks, but we need to engage before the other guild, so sit your asses right on that spawn point and hit TAB and auto-attack for hours on end!"?

It has escalated to this now, both guilds say they hate doing it, but both guilds hate the thought of the other guild getting the trak teeth EVEN MORE.

Someone from a guild who answers the 3am batphone and just spend how many days/nights of the last few weeks trying to out-poopsock another guild in a emulated version of a 11-year old game calling ME delusional? C'mon now, Loke. I'M the one laughing at your poop-filled socks. To each their own, I guess. /sigh

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Based on what the "whatever it takes to get the trak teeth" attitude we've seen so far here, I absolutely believe it will escalate to one guild starting to poopsock the mob after it dies in case it spawns back to back, and causing the other guild to respond by poopsocking because in their minds they can't afford to let the other guild have Trakanon.

YOU personally might not do it, but has either guild given any of us a reason to believe that this would not happen? Has either guild backed down? Has either guild said anything but "Yeah, poopsocking sucks, but we need to engage before the other guild, so sit your asses right on that spawn point and hit TAB and auto-attack for hours on end!"?

It has escalated to this now, both guilds say they hate doing it, but both guilds hate the thought of the other guild getting the trak teeth EVEN MORE.

huh?