How much do Clerics need CHA?

[cutelittlecow]

Not that my opinion really matters much, but I resonate a lot with Dont/Solist on the majority of what some consider to be "hot" takes.

I do realize that it was also brought up that CC, breaking rooms, etc., should moreso fall on an Enchanter. During the Kunark leveling race I ended up playing with a friend of mine at the time that rolled a Gnome Enchanter, and in that situation, I had more CHA on my Cleric as a Human when we had to do corpse recoveries as I started with as many starting points into CHA as I could have. This decision actually saved us a lot of headache down the line as I had a much greater success when it came to successfully not critical resisting my lulls as compared to my partner.

Obviously everyone's playstyle is different and utilizing your entire toolkit isn't always necessary, but to neglect that it's there is honestly just pretty bad.

All that being said, this thread was about Halflings. It might hurt not having a bunch of CHA, but sneak in it's own right is a very valuable tool in some situations, especially so at end game. You trade being exceptional at one thing for having something that no one else has, which is honestly very fair. Overall, you'll be able to get plenty of CHA from gear in the long run, and for what you can't get, there are always buffs and potions.

-- Bayleigh

[Solist]

Originally Posted by cutelittlecow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not that my opinion really matters much, but I resonate a lot with Dont/Solist on the majority of what some consider to be "hot" takes.

I do realize that it was also brought up that CC, breaking rooms, etc., should moreso fall on an Enchanter. During the Kunark leveling race I ended up playing with a friend of mine at the time that rolled a Gnome Enchanter, and in that situation, I had more CHA on my Cleric as a Human when we had to do corpse recoveries as I started with as many starting points into CHA as I could have. This decision actually saved us a lot of headache down the line as I had a much greater success when it came to successfully not critical resisting my lulls as compared to my partner.

Obviously everyone's playstyle is different and utilizing your entire toolkit isn't always necessary, but to neglect that it's there is honestly just pretty bad.

All that being said, this thread was about Halflings. It might hurt not having a bunch of CHA, but sneak in it's own right is a very valuable tool in some situations, especially so at end game. You trade being exceptional at one thing for having something that no one else has, which is honestly very fair. Overall, you'll be able to get plenty of CHA from gear in the long run, and for what you can't get, there are always buffs and potions.

-- Bayleigh

The change in attitude towards cleric charisma is almost exclusively attributed to yourself, Falamin, Liia and myself on both servers. Was a massive amount of fun trying to chase you guys down on the way to 50 there and arguably the best p99 has ever been for me.

I think the most prudent point I agree with you is about using your toolkit. Any player using all their available tools creatively will run circles around someone in the best 'meta' not using their abilities. Suppose that's broader advice though and is true for many classes.

But circling back after re-reading some of this thread I'll double down. Max cha cleric is the best group cleric, and duo/trio cleric, and by far the best solo cleric possible. It is the worst raid cleric. Aside from duo with a warrior doing Xenovorash I can't see a reason to have max mana really. Having a class that can DA do room breaks, and leave an enchanter or other group members able to freecast while mobs do zero damage is very efficient. Healing is by far the least efficient thing a cleric can ever do of the common group roles.

Reducing mob DPS is not some crazy concept. Thats why you single pull with a monk/dru/ranger/bard, thats why you mez stuff with a bard/enc/nec, thats why you root/snare/whatever. It's all to reduce DPS. Doing so on a cleric is no different and frees up the actual dps classes to do their job in some situations while you manage singles. When you eliminate any instance of two mobs doing dps at once your healing load goes down significantly which sounds astonishingly simple but is somehow abstract in game for people playing clerics?

Then you become a raid cleric and outside of a ch neck/neck recharge/reaper doing your own chain for a full coth cycle you are the most boring class to play.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by Solist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Having a class that can DA do room breaks, and leave an enchanter or other group members able to freecast while mobs do zero damage is very efficient. Healing is by far the least efficient thing a cleric can ever do of the common group roles.

1) Given that a Cleric has double DAs to fall back on during crit lull fails, why exactly is max CHA so important to begin with? Are you really going to say you're pumping CHA just for CRs?

2) If Cleric healing is inefficient, whose healing is efficient? Who should heal the group instead?

ITT: good players massively overthinking the Cleric class You're there to heal, bros. You have other tools in the toolbox to be sure. And Cleric lulls are very legit and powerful. But the class isn't built around them. I mean, I suppose you can make an argument for it if you have a very niche playstyle built around dungeon crawling in duos/trios. But I think every other grouping/raiding Cleric is better off maxing their mana pool, and carrying around a bag of +CHA gear (which is plentiful and cheap) for the rare occasions they need it.

Groups and raids in EQ have probably wiped about 1000x more often because a Cleric ran OOM than because the Cleric puller got a crit lull resist at an inopportune moment.

"Group LF Cleric to pull for us instead of healing," said no one ever.

[PatChapp]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) Given that a Cleric has double DAs to fall back on during crit lull fails, why exactly is max CHA so important to begin with? Are you really going to say you're pumping CHA just for CRs?

2) If Cleric healing is inefficient, whose healing is efficient? Who should heal the group instead?

ITT: good players massively overthinking the Cleric class You're there to heal, bros. You have other tools in the toolbox to be sure. And Cleric lulls are very legit and powerful. But the class isn't built around them. I mean, I suppose you can make an argument for it if you have a very niche playstyle built around dungeon crawling in duos/trios. But I think every other grouping/raiding Cleric is better off maxing their mana pool, and carrying around a bag of +CHA gear (which is plentiful and cheap) for the rare occasions they need it.

Groups and raids in EQ have probably wiped about 1000x more often because a Cleric ran OOM than because the Cleric puller got a crit lull resist at an inopportune moment.

"Group LF Cleric to pull for us instead of healing," said no one ever.

Cha cleric with paci bracer is a much better puller in an enchanter/cleric duo than the enchanter.
Mana free,and allows the enchanter to handle problems as they happen.

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by PatChapp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cha cleric with paci bracer is a much better puller in an enchanter/cleric duo than the enchanter.
Mana free,and allows the enchanter to handle problems as they happen.

There may be some scenarios where this is true, but again, if you're a Cleric with two DAs and an Ench to peel mobs off you, why do you need to max CHA to begin with? A crit resist isn't going to matter in 99% of cases, and if there is a pull so risky it might get the Cleric killed on a crit resist, guess what? The Cleric shouldn't be pulling in that case, anyway! The Enchanter should, since the Cleric can rez him back in if it all goes south.

Also let's be honest, assuming two players of reasonable intelligence and experience, you can basically do whatever the hell you want with Ench/Cleric anyway. You're not exactly hurting for efficiency.