Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You think you do but unfortunately you do not. All the data this entire thread says mage does more damage than shaman. The only data ANYONE has provided here is related to DPS between mage and shaman. ALL OF THIS DATA says mage > shaman. No matter how much or how little. Your entire argument consists of shaman heals and utility being more important than the DPS difference. You've provided ZERO data to support this. You're arguing nothing more than an opinion. One that PRETTY MUCH EVERYONE agrees is stupid and unfounded.

inb4 argumentum ad populum marcus aurelius

The only person who has provided zero data is trolls like you lol. I have factually provided way more data than you have.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have factually provided way more data than you have.

You have. I do not deny this. Unfortunately for you all your data says mage does more damage than shaman. Your OPINION says shaman heals/utility is more important than how much more damage the mage does. You've yet to back this up. Myself and I'd argue most people disagree. You can't heal full hp targets. Malo is covered. Slow is covered. CC is covered. Heals are covered. What benefit do you bring?

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have. I do not deny this. Unfortunately for you all your data says mage does more damage than shaman. Your OPINION says shaman heals/utility is more important than how much more damage the mage does. You've yet to back this up. Myself and I'd argue most people disagree. You can't heal full hp targets. Malo is covered. Slow is covered. CC is covered. Heals are covered. What benefit do you bring?

Exactly! This really isn't hard hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's continue our civil discussion guys!

According to DSM, you would not Malo/Slow mobs dying in 30 seconds. In the context of a high level fast-paced killing DPS group, this would presumably be most mobs.

What value does a Shaman add to Enc/Enc/Clr group over a Mage if the Shaman will (as has been irrefutably stated by DSM in this thread) not utilize Malo or Slow for most of the mobs the group is killing hehe? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have. I do not deny this. Unfortunately for you all your data says mage does more damage than shaman. Your OPINION says shaman heals/utility is more important than how much more damage the mage does. You've yet to back this up. Myself and I'd argue most people disagree. You can't heal full hp targets. Malo is covered. Slow is covered. CC is covered. Heals are covered. What benefit do you bring?

Thanks for admitting that. The data shows the extra DPS from a mage isn't helping the group, so it is a matter of fact a broader toolkit and more camp options will help more. Something is better than nothing, even if you choose not to use that something.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for admitting that. The data shows the extra DPS from a mage isn't helping the group, so it is a matter of fact a broader toolkit and more camp options will help more. Something is better than nothing, even if you choose not to use that something.

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's continue our civil discussion guys!

According to DSM, you would not Malo/Slow mobs dying in 30 seconds. In the context of a high level fast-paced killing DPS group, this would presumably be most mobs.

What value does a Shaman add to Enc/Enc/Clr group over a Mage if the Shaman will (as has been irrefutably stated by DSM in this thread) not utilize Malo or Slow for most of the mobs the group is killing hehe? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with your post is that the content of your post would seem to imply that you are equating the better (and easier/more convenient) DPS & pet of a Mage as "nothing" - it is not "nothing" and you have provided zero evidence that "it is a matter of fact a broader toolkit and more camp options will help more". Just because you state it is a fact does not make it a fact. It would have to be a fact hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] What it really is is your opinion that it will "help more". This really isn't hard.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The data shows the extra DPS from a mage isn't helping the group, so it is a matter of fact a broader toolkit and more camp options will help more.

Disagree. The data shows mage does more damage than shaman and the facts show the group has all the utility it needs and shaman brings largely redundant things. You can SAY the extra DPS from a mage isn't helping but that's just factually incorrect. Again we're talking about a group that doesn't really need ANYTHING from a 4th player. But more dps > healing full hp targets or slowing already slowed targets. Regardless of how much dps or whether or not you get more PH's. Shaman opens up VERY FEW things. Mage also opens up things so thats irrelevant also.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Disagree. The data shows mage does more damage than shaman and the facts show the group has all the utility it needs and shaman brings largely redundant things. You can SAY the extra DPS from a mage isn't helping but that's just factually incorrect. Again we're talking about a group that doesn't really need ANYTHING from a 4th player. But more dps > healing full hp targets or slowing already slowed targets. Regardless of how much dps or whether or not you get more PH's. Shaman opens up VERY FEW things. Mage also opens up things so thats irrelevant also.

The data shows the DPS increase is irrelevant, and you haven't shown why DPS helps when you are no longer getting additional kills per hour in the session.

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remember when you said "you mad bro"? You think you're in a position to lecture someone about how to deal with a response you don't like?

I'm not going to let you forget that now, you hypocrite. It'll be a constant reminder of how full of shit you are.

I have the right to defend myself. I didn't start the insults. You did. I am just responding in kind. If you don't want to be insulted, don't start insulting people. It is pretty obvious who the aggressor was when I posted that comment. It was you. I see you still haven't posted the comment I was responding to[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I thought it would make you look good?

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The data shows the DPS increase is irrelevant, and you haven't shown why DPS helps when you are no longer getting additional kills per hour in the session.

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's continue our civil discussion guys!

According to DSM, you would not Malo/Slow mobs dying in 30 seconds. In the context of a high level fast-paced killing DPS group, this would presumably be most mobs.

What value does a Shaman add to Enc/Enc/Clr group over a Mage if the Shaman will (as has been irrefutably stated by DSM in this thread) not utilize Malo or Slow for most of the mobs the group is killing hehe? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have the right to defend myself.

I have a right to defend myself from a poster who ignores my posts while making accusations (that are false) and making claims (that are unsubstantiated and false) about me.

I have admitted to zero trolling. Quite the contrary! In irrefutable fact - which you cannot refute - I have challenged you calling me a troll and have asked you to provide proof/evidence of my "trolling". You have not provided - and seemingly cannot provide - any evidence that supports your claim, hence your claim is unsubstantiated - and false.

Your post would seem to indicate that you believe that others "want to shut you up"? Oh quite the contrary! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I have been attempting to continue having a civil discussion with you, but you have repeatedly ignored my posts and dodged my questions hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The hundreds of insult/meme posts don't help your case either.

I have not insulted or attacked you, I have posted zero memes. Please provide evidence to support your claim that I have engaged in any such activity on this (or any other) thread, else your claim is both unsubstantiated and false.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can provide evidence for your claims or admit defeat at any time.

I submit this entire thread and both of our entire post histories as evidence. You have not provided - and seemingly cannot provide - any counter-evidence.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is sad you think you can win an argument with just insults/memes/trolling, and no evidence.

Your post would seem to imply that you believe that we are arguing. This is intended to be a civil discussion - not an argument.

Again, you bring up accusations of insults/memes/trolling, but you have provided no evidence of me doing any such activities. I present this thread and both of our post histories as evidence, and you have not provided - and seemingly cannot provide - any counter-evidence.

If you are capable of engaging in civil discussion to back up your points with data that is relevant to the discussion, you may choose to start replying and doing so (rather than calling me a troll) at any time hehe. It really isn't hard. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the event that this post is ignored, I submit it as further evidence that DSM has ignored my posts hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The data shows the DPS increase is irrelevant, and you haven't shown why DPS helps when you are no longer getting additional kills per hour in the session.

I have. You just probably dismissed it cause it doesn't suit your agenda. Literally any amount of damage gain is better than healing full hp or slowing already slowed. That is ZERO net gain to the group. Even 1 dps is a small net gain. Even if it only means you're killing extra trash mobs or have extra AFK time between spawn cycles. It's still objectively better (admittedly only slightly in this case) than less DPS and completely unnecessary extra heals/slows or whatever other bullshit. You can only argue shaman is better if the cleric is unable to keep everyone topped off without going OOM or for some reason the enchanters cant slow or something. Which will never fucking happen to any halfway decent group of players with this group makeup. Which again is assumed the players are good and know what they're doing.

You have nothing but an opinion/preference to back your claims here. No data supports it. All the data supports mage.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have. You just probably dismissed it cause it doesn't suit your agenda. Literally any amount of damage gain is better than healing full hp or slowing already slowed. That is ZERO net gain to the group. Even 1 dps is a small net gain. Even if it only means you're killing extra trash mobs or have extra AFK time between spawn cycles. It's still objectively better (admittedly only slightly in this case) than less DPS and completely unnecessary extra heals/slows or whatever other bullshit. You can only argue shaman is better if the cleric is unable to keep everyone topped off without going OOM or for some reason the enchanters cant slow or something. Which will never fucking happen to any halfway decent group of players with this group makeup. Which again is assumed the players are good and know what they're doing.

You have nothing but an opinion/preference to back your claims here. No data supports it. All the data supports mage.

No, you have not explained why 1 DPS is superior. It offers nothing if you aren't gaining more kills per hour. You just keep pretending you explained it somewhere.