Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but the stuff Troxx posted shows pretty low DPS for a Mage to be honest.

Not really. The overwhelming majority of players over-rate their own damage dealt and typcially only look at or post cherry-picked best-case-scenario parses. Troxx has always been pretty good about trying to keep things grounded to reality. I think you know this, even if you're coming at it from the opposite direction, because you already know the shaman's a better offensive class than most folks fully appreciate.

As for the shaman, your example I expect represents using dual Bane of Nife plus an Envenomed Bolt to get into the mid 90's. That's near 1200 mana per two mobs, for ~45-50 second-odd duration spells, and since it takes a little longer to recover that much mana, plus the offensive spell cast times, you need mobs that are dying at just the right rate then slight gaps between the next pulls if you want to sustain that output. It does not permit the shaman much leeway for using malo (another 350 mana per) or his own slow. Granted Mala costs just as much mana and the magician can't recover mana as quickly as a shaman can so it hurts the magician's mana bar even more.

That's where your opponents are going to pile on: It's doable, but it requires fairly specific circumstances that the group in question has to deliberately maintain while also managing a couple of charm pets and other pulls. The magician achieves effectively its full potential in a brain-dead manner that requires no planning or thought, so in practice it'll tend to reach that level more consistently. But as has been said, I'll prefer the shaman between those two anyway, outside a specific handful of areas, simply because in a group that's already ripping everything to shreds the extra defense offered by the shaman counts for more than a slightly increased killspeed that nobody's even going to notice anyway.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not really. The overwhelming majority of players over-rate their own damage dealt and typcially only look at or post cherry-picked best-case-scenario parses. Troxx has always been pretty good about trying to keep things grounded to reality. I think you know this, even if you're coming at it from the opposite direction, because you already know the shaman's a better offensive class than most folks fully appreciate.

As for the shaman, your example I expect represents using dual Bane of Nife plus an Envenomed Bolt to get into the mid 90's. That's near 1200 mana per two mobs, for ~45-50 second-odd duration spells, and since it takes a little longer to recover that much mana, plus the offensive spell cast times, you need mobs that are dying at just the right rate then slight gaps between the next pulls if you want to sustain that output. It does not permit the shaman much leeway for using malo (another 350 mana per) or his own slow. Granted Mala costs just as much mana and the magician can't recover mana as quickly as a shaman can so it hurts the magician's mana bar even more.

That's where your opponents are going to pile on: It's doable, but it requires fairly specific circumstances that the group in question has to deliberately maintain while also managing a couple of charm pets and other pulls. The magician achieves effectively its full potential in a brain-dead manner that requires no planning or thought, so in practice it'll tend to reach that level more consistently. But as has been said, I'll prefer the shaman between those two anyway, outside a specific handful of areas, simply because in a group that's already ripping everything to shreds the extra defense offered by the shaman counts for more than a slightly increased killspeed that nobody's even going to notice anyway.

Danth

I trust the screenshot he sent, which shows 80 DPS. I have no reason to doubt it. However, I don't know what he means when he says he can do 180 DPS. That is what I am questioning. I could do 180 DPS too if I piled on an additional DoT in one of my previous examples. That doesn't mean I could sustain it hehe.

For the DPS calculation it depends on the situation. Epic Click + Pox on two root/rotted mobs is 65 DPS for 860 mana. With Pet that is basically 75 DPS. This assumes you are having the Shaman root/rotting mobs while the Enchanters are fighting other mobs, which allows the DoTs to fully finish. The math is (1425 + 2088) / 108 seconds = 32.5 DPS per mob, + 11 from pet.

If you want a faster "combat DPS", you would use Bane + Envenomed for 60 DPS, and with a pet that would be 71 DPS. Both end up costing 750 mana. Since there is no change in damage, the math is (214 + 146) / 6 = 60 DPS per mob, + 11 from pet. You don't need full duration here, each tick is 60 DPS. Pet average DPS will obviously vary a bit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjZxMlJSCDc using this video, it looks like you can Torpor recover mana at around 15 mana per second. If you include C2, it is more like 17 mana per second. This means you can recover the 800 mana in 47 seconds. That is easily the length of a fight if Enchanters are fighting 2 mobs with charmed pets.

Math-wise Mages just don't really offer much in this group, other than maybe a little bit more DPS if you don't want to have the Shaman root rot hehe. As you say, the difference in kill speed is negligible with two Enchanters typically.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As you say, the difference in kill speed is negligible with two Enchanters typically.

Right, we're absolutely on the same page here. I've done the shaman mana recovery rate trials myself awhile back. Even if the magician wins he still loses because he can't win by enough to justify giving up everything he gives up for a killrate difference that'll be measured in mere seconds. They arguably both lose compared to some other options but that's beside the point here.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I trust the screenshot he sent, which shows 80 DPS.

I already told you it gets weird compiling multiple fights. It undervalues all dps. Use Grandmaster (60 monk with below weapons) as the baseline.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Fist_of_Nature

https://wiki.project1999.com/Pricele...ium_Fist_Wraps

You really think a 60 monk with that setup is only 48dps? Lol my 60 monk with epic fists and /scepter or mastery is in the 60-70dps range.

Rub your brain cells together and scale it up.

Jesus help me.