most underpowered class in game?

[Windez]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The exceptions are not arbitrary. They are based on how people actually play the game. People generally don't solo on Rogues most of the time, because they understand Rogues are group dependent. If soloing is important to a player, they have a solo class they can use when they can't find a group on their Rogue.

The problem is you assume late game is not valuable. That is why you think you can ignore a Mage's late game mediocrity. The purpose of leveling is to get to late game, so you can't ignore it.

The question OP asked is not "most underpowered leveling class".

In the context of a discussion of overall power, yes, they are arbitrary. In the context of overall power all aspects of the game should be weighed equally for all classes. That's the whole point of overall power. So, personally, I think your methodology is wrong, and therefore, your conclusion is unqualified.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Windez [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the context of a discussion of overall power, yes, they are arbitrary. In the context of overall power all aspects of the game should be weighed equally for all classes. That's the whole point of overall power. So, personally, I think your methodology is wrong, and therefore, your conclusion is unqualified.

I disagree. This is a 23 year old game where everybody knows how to play.

If your logic was correct, Mages would be played more than Rogues at high levels. This is because soloing would factor into people's decision making. This isn't true, which is why Rogues see more play at high levels, even though they can't solo as well as Mages. People are already devaluing Rogue soloing in their calculations, not just me.

[Windez]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree. This is a 23 year old game where everybody knows how to play.

I've been in Castle for like two years now. I can guarantee this statement is false.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If your logic was correct, Mages would be played more than Rogues at high levels. This is because soloing would factor into people's decision making. This isn't true, which is why Rogues see more play at high levels, even though they can't solo as well as Mages. People are already devaluing Rogue soloing in their calculations, not just me.

So by your logic you'd see very few mages on a fresh server because they have no progression to look forward to. Like most melees rogues are at their peak in endgame velious, so there should be no surprise that you see many of them.

Anyways, I still believe your methodology is wrong, and judging by the last 59 pages, I don't think I'm alone in this sentiment. There's no further discussion needed.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Windez [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've been in Castle for like two years now. I can guarantee this statement is false.



So by your logic you'd see very few mages on a fresh server because they have no progression to look forward to. Like most melees rogues are at their peak in endgame velious, so there should be no surprise that you see many of them.

Anyways, I still believe your methodology is wrong, and judging by the last 59 pages, I don't think I'm alone in this sentiment. There's no further discussion needed.

The discussion isn't "most underpowered class on a fresh server". You have to look at the whole timeline.

Well, if you say no further discussion is needed, I guess that's it then[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one has the power of level 4 mage.

Mage probably is most underpowered 1-3 though. I remember making an erud mage on live and even with fire spell it took a few deaths before my melee skills were high enough to survive a fight against a level 1.

[Fammaden]

That's like all the casters at level one though.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know why raid is even factored into underpowered discussion in this thread. If you are in a guild you get invited to the raid no matter how useless your class is, so raid power is irrelevant in my book.

Massive facepalm.

A guild needs to actually be able to defeat the content. If you don't have the right classes and/or amount of people, you can't. The speed and efficiency of being able to complete the content is very relevant as well.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mage's do not do well at high levels due to lack of Utility and CC.

Yes they do. The game is about killing shit. Mages do that. You only need 1 or 2 people in the party to have CC and plenty of classes have Root. CC is not required for soloing, just find the appropriate places where chain summoning is sufficient, if you even need to chain summon (it seems the aggro mechanic for chain summoning on p99 is currently incorrect, but that's an admin error, not something against the class when discussing actual EQ).

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If Mages were more powerful, less people would become CoTH bots

I can guarantee you would still see more Enchanters out in the wild if they also had CoTH, for example.

Straw man. Enchanters are the most OP class in the game, that doesn't mean Mages are the most underpowered, and they certainly aren't underpowered *because* of CoTH. There is simply a big time commitment involved with CoTH a lot of the time if you want to move the character out of and back to the CoTH spot. Hence, it's very logical to keep the Mage in that spot and then go play another character.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any duo with a Mage is suboptimal, due to how much utility you lose by bringing a pure DPS class to a duo.

You don't need "utility" that much, stop saying this dumb line. Mages are plenty good in duo/trio. If you're gonna go somewhere like Kael and farm, which is basically what most of the game boils down to - finding a spot to plop down where you can grind through MOBs, a Mage in the majority of small group setups will result in more things being killed than if you had a Ranger or Paladin or Wizard or Warrior instead.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You do need utility, stop using that dumb line[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Zuranthium]

Exactly what "utility" is supposedly needed, and where?

In actuality, all that's needed in most group scenarios is 1.) Damage, 2.) Heals/Mitigation, 3). Root

Again talking about the Kael example, you can't even Stun/Mez there. You have to Root everything, and the way to make it most dependable is with magic resist debuff. Which is something Mages have. An ability that also makes another OP game mechanic - Charming - more dependable. Contrary to your inanity, Mages have one of the most useful "utility" assists in the game. And as already discussed, using their pet to offtank an add is already something they can do that isn't just DPS.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly what "utility" is supposedly needed, and where?

In actuality, all that's needed in most group scenarios is 1.) Damage, 2.) Heals/Mitigation, 3). Root

Again talking about the Kael example, you can't even Stun/Mez there. You have to Root everything, and the way to make that most dependable is with magic resist debuff. Which is something Mages have. An ability which also makes another OP game mechanic - Charming - more dependable. Contrary to your inanity, Mages have one of the most useful "utility" assists in the game. And as already discussed, using their pet to offtank an add is already something they can do that isn't just DPS.

Why do you think Enchanters are the most OP class in the game?

It is due to their insane amount of utility that allows them to basically do whatever they want. Charm is not the core reason why Enchanters are OP. It is all the other stuff they can do around Charming that helps them with it.

There is a reason why the classes rated most powerful and can do the most also happen to have a lot of utility. Shamans are not the highest DPS class out there, but then can do better than just about every other class when it comes to soloing.

On the bottom end, the classes that are generally considered the worst are the pure DPS classes (Wizard, Rogue, Mage). It's really not that hard.