When are they Implementing the Charm Nerf?

loramin · #1 08-06-2022, 03:45 PM

Look, I totally understand (and agree with!) the argument that we play differently than live players did. The thing about us being stuck at level 60, while Live had Luclin and future expansions, is absolutely true, and does make us more "top heavy".

Likewise, our wiki is better than Allakhazam, Caster's Realm, etc. ... but really, not by that much, and certainly not in relevant ways for this dicussion. Like yes, our wiki has the exact mob loc, and will even show you with a red x on a map where that loc is; Allakhazam didn't have such data for most mobs. But every class had their own forum, with tons of people (again, live had more than 10x the players we have) discussing every last detail of their class, so it's 100% false to say "oh no one in live knew what they were doing".

Enchanters on live knew about levels and charisma. They may not have been as certain of their exact effects, but they absolutely understood how to charm (and I can point you toward a wealth of evidence ... just the Caster's Realm guides on the Wayback Machine alone should be enough). They chose not too (or at least most did; again some did solo charm). And what no one has been able to explain is why only Enchanters (and to a lesser extent Druids/Necros/Bards) make different choices here.

No one is saying "oh those live Warriors didn't know how to solo" ... or well, actually, they did [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] There were long, passionate arguments about how binding wounds in combat was totally classic, and people just didn't know how to play their class on live ... until it was proven that combat bind wounds was nonsense, and removed from here.

But with stuff like 25+ mob kites and combat bind wounds being removed here, every class plays fundamentally the same as they did on live. Warriors group, or solo poorly. Same for Clerics. Necromancers and Mages solo (or group, if they feel like it). All just like live.

Charming is the only thing fundamentally different from Live here: Enchanters are the only class that was predominantly a group class on Live, but is now predominantly a solo class here.

So, I'm not saying to remove charm: if no one could charm solo here, we wouldn't have a good emulator either! All I'm saying is, somehow, some way (and there are much smarter people than me with more details to offer) charm should be somewhat more risky ... like it was on Live.

DMN · #2 08-06-2022, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But with stuff like 25+ mob kites and combat bind wounds being removed here, every class plays fundamentally the same as they did on live.

And thats why we have bards kiting, what, just 24? Very fundamentally classic. Druids soloing king tranix? clerics soloing the chardok royalty? monks soloing shroom king? i'm sure you don't want me to bring up shaman again, am i right or am i right?

-Catherin- · #3 08-06-2022, 04:58 PM

This thread now has the #2 most replies in the caster's subforum, only behind Necro, how do you not choose Iksar? Which was created in 2015.

Let's go for Gold, guys.

loramin · #4 08-06-2022, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And thats why we have bards kiting, what, just 24? Very fundamentally classic. Druids soloing king tranix? clerics soloing the chardok royalty? monks soloing shroom king? i'm sure you don't want me to bring up shaman again, am i right or am i right?

Bards did swarm kite in classic: I know, because I had a friend who played a bard and learned how to do it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] As for the rest, those are all extreme examples, that simply show what others have been saying about playing an emulator years after the original. Yes, a handful of dedicated players, pushing a game to the limit, can do a few things (eg. solo something hard) that hadn't been done before on live.

But none of your examples is anything like a class being played fundamentally differently by virtually everyone who plays that class. Most Enchanters grouped on live, but most Enchanters solo here: that's not true of any other class (again, you don't see Warriors or Clerics mass soloing here, or Necros deciding to group most of the time ... they all play fundamentally the same as they did on live).

When something so basic is different from the original, it strongly suggests the emulator isn't emulating well.