Solo Barbarian Shaman Stat Allocation

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However, I don't agre with yet another of your "declarations", that I need to define anything.

To me it's self-evident that 95+% is the journey, and only 5% is playing your character once you've gotten them everything; I feel that point stands without any further evidence.

/Thread

You refuse to provide any evidence for your primary thesis, which is 25 STA > 25 WIS for "95% of Shaman's life" (which is still undefined). This means you just have an opinion. It is fine to have an opinion, but it isn't based on any facts within the game, so please do not assert it as such.

You also still have not defined "95% of a Shaman's life", because I don't know what "gotten them everything" actually means. There are multiple gear combinations one player could consider "everything". I also disagree that everybody plays the way you describe. Some people play their characters for years after they hit 60, even if they never raid lol. I am one of those people. I have played at least 40% of Shamwowi's life at level 60.

Until you define "95% of a Shaman's life", you can't assert your opinion as anything other than an opinion.

You have conceded my other points:

1. WIS is harder to cap during the Velious era than STA generally speaking. This is WITHOUT RAID GEAR. Usually the best starting stat is the primary stat that is hardest to cap, because a capped stat isn't helping you. This means 25 WIS / 5 STA is generally the better way to go (or 25 WIS / 5 AGI for Ogres). If you don't believe me, you can create Magelos with various gear and see how the stats shake out. Remember that you also get a +50 STA buff, but only a +10 WIS buff that is an illusion, which means it falls off more often due to zoning. You can also drink a +STA potion that you can craft yourself.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, no argument from me, at 60 with good gear Stamina is easier to cap.

2. The only reason why you would want to put 25 into STA instead is if you are planning out your gear/strategies ahead of time, and want to save a buff slot in the long run. This is because if you can cap STA without needing Riotous Health / Primal Essence, you end up freeing up a buff slot, because you do not need to cast Riotous Health on yourself. Freeing up a buff slot can be difficult to do, so this can be more important than just raw stats.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And, if you're not using that stuff ... you're not needing to hit the buff cap. Whatever your 15th (or even 13th or 14th) buff is, it's not doing much. If you really want to discuss it, post all 15 self-cast, non-consumable (and non-PE hammer) buffs you're casting, so we can discuss what the oh-so-valuable 15th buff is actually doing for you.

You have shown that you are willing to admit that Shamans can cap their buffs at least, even before 60. My point has always been that clearing a buff slot can help you if you are thinking ahead about which buffs you want to use on a normal basis. Clearing buff slots is not as easy as putting on stat gear, so it is something to consider because that is a non-standard bonus.

3. Starting stats will NOT really help you during the leveling process, because stats scale by level. You will need to be around level 40 before you start noticing a difference. Generally speaking if you are concerned about starting stats, you are looking towards the end game, where those points end up giving you the most returns.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look, I agree with everyone else in this thread: THIS SHIT DOESN'T MATTER!

4. 25 STA gives you 75HP at level 60. It gives you something like 30 HP at level 30. Neither 75HP nor 30HP will save your life a significant amount of times. If this wasn't true, everybody would be running two HP earrings instead of a stat earring + Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring. They would be getting https://wiki.project1999.com/Star_of_Eyes instead. Generally speaking Shamans do not do this, because the stat penalty from putting on Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring is insignificant. Having another inventory slot open for a bag is better, and Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring is easier to use because it does not require a target. If losing 35 HP or more on your earring doesn't change how often you die, why do you think the 25 STA will make a difference? Having a Hammered Golden Hoop instead of the Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring would give you that 75HP plus 8 more STA, and yet people wear Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring instead.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look, I agree with everyone else in this thread: THIS SHIT DOESN'T MATTER!

5. Shamans can in fact run out of mana before dying, which is why the +25 WIS can give you a small chance to survive a bad encounter. Similar to the +25 STA, this chance is very small. The usual culprit for this both Pre-Torpor and Post-Torpor are strings of resists and/or root breaks. Shaman spells are expensive, which means fizzling, resists, and root breaks can really add up quick if you are not careful. Here is a video of me fighting Bravatar: https://youtu.be/igpbLuNe0ls?t=1244 . As you can see at that timestamp, I am low on both HP and Mana. If he had given me one or two more unlucky resists, I would be completely out of Mana. If I was at 2% mana and 40% health, I would probably gate for safety because a double attack from Bravatar would get me very close to dying. Remember, this is me fighting Bravatar in mid-tier raid gear, so a lesser geared Shaman would be even lower on Mana.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, yes, you are correct: +25 Starting Stamina will not save your life often!

But it will save your life more than +25 Wisdom.

You have no evidence to assert this claim, and I have a video where the +25 WIS helped me survive. This is where you need to actually define what "95% of a "Shaman's life" is, so we can see when the STA might be better than WIS. Or you need to provide some data showing how often HP has saved your life vs. mana. You are making the claim, you need to actually show why it is correct. The burden of proof is on you.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

/Thread

You refuse to provide any evidence for your primary thesis, which is 25 STA > 25 WIS for 95% of Shaman's life. This means you just have an opinion. It is fine to have an opinion, but it isn't based on any facts within the game, so please do not assert it as such.

You also still have not defined "95% of a "Shaman's life", because I don't know what "gotten them everything" actually means. There are multiple gear combinations one player could consider "everything".

Until you define "95% of a "Shaman's life", you can't assert your opinion as anything other than an opinion.

Actually, that just seems to be a difference between us: I'm fine with making points (like that most of the time in EQ is spent on the journey, not the destination), and leaving it up to an intelligent reader to decide for themselves whether what I'm saying makes sense to them or not.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have conceded my other points:

1. WIS is harder to cap during the Velious era than STA generally speaking.

I'll happily concede as much (while pointing out that it's irrelevant, since again no one will hit either cap for 95+% of their life). But I don't agree that:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the best starting stat is the primary stat that is hardest to cap, because a capped stat isn't helping you.

You've gone from objective truth to subjective statement in one sentence. Why would someone base a decision on what will affect them < 5% of the time, when they could base it on what will affect them 95+% of the time?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only reason

Once again, whenever you start declaring "the only ___ is whatever my opinion is" ... I just stop reading.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. Starting stats will NOT really help you during the leveling process, because stats scale by level.

Gee, I feel like other people in this thread have also pointed out that starting stats don't matter, and someone argued with them that they do matter ... who could that have been ...

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok. If you're nauseated, stop reading and making pointless posts. OP is asking a question about starting stats, he isn't asking about how much you personally care about starting stats.

The funny thing is if you think gear is important, you think stats are important hehe. 25 points into WIS/STA is a lot gear-wise. That on average is at least 3 pieces of gear's worth, assuming it has a higher than average WIS/STA of 8+.

Regardless of what either poster said, we all agree (at least some of the time [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]) that starting stats are inconsequential ... and yet we (yourself included) have spent over 25 pages debating which one is less inconsequential.

I still maintain HP is, and saying "but stats are largely meaningless" won't change that.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

4. 25 STA gives you 75HP at level 60. It gives you something like 30 HP at level 30. Neither 75HP nor 30HP will save your life a significant amount of times.

Again, stats largely don't matter ... but no matter how many times you repeat this line of reasoning, it won't change the fact that Mana will save your life less than HP does.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

5. Shamans can in fact run out of mana before dying

Yes, they can. But as I keep asking, when you were leveling how many times did you start at full mana (maximums are irrelevant if you aren't using them), burn through all of your mana, and then die at the end for lack of mana?

Conversely, how many times did you start at full HP, but die for lack of HP? I'm 100% ok with letting an intelligent reader ask themselves these questions, and decide for themselves which stat will save their life more often; no further "evidence" is required.

And also, again, your video of a single fight, at 60, with Torpor, with good gear, is no evidence of anything ... but it's especially not evidence of what it's like for the 95+% of the time before you have all that.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have no evidence to assert this claim, and I have a video where the +25 WIS helped me survive. This is where you need to actually define what "95% of a "Shaman's life" is, so we can see when the STA might be better than WIS.

Again, we don't have to keep talking: there's no reason for you to just keep repeating the same thing over and over. I'm 100% ok with whoever reads this judging the logical arguments I've made, and the "evidence" I've provided (thought experiments like the above, my Magelo, etc.) against your video.

If you feel you've made a strong case, and you feel your video is strong evidence, let's just stop posting here.