Solo Barbarian Shaman Stat Allocation

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That seems extremely clear to me: we were talking about maxing Stamina, and no one is maxing Stamina at level 39. Not sure why this is hard for you to understand, but even if it was ... literally just two posts later ... I clarified that even without considering stat maxes, HP was still preferable:

It is clear. You are talking about level 60 Shamans. I was too, so there is no need to bring up 0-59 Shamans. Not sure what the problem is. Just stop bringing up 0-59 Shamans in your arguments lol.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mystery solved: you're talking oranges and everyone else here was talking Apples.

But getting back to Barbarian Shaman (you know, the topic of the thread) still no one has presented any evidence that for 99.9% of that Shaman's life Stamina won't be better; all you've got is "in the last 0.01% of their life as they get their very final items, they might (depending on gear preferences) hit the cap."

What are you talking about? I have been talking about Barbarians the whole time lol. All of the Magelos posted here that we were talking about are Barbarian. I simply posted my Magelo because you asked about my gear before level 60. Or did you forget your own questions already?

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, you're reframing my arguments to win, while ignoring what I wrote. Be honest: in what % of fights do you actually start at max mana, burn through all that mana (but not all your HP), and then die at the end from lack of mana?

I am not reframing anything. What are you talking about? I have run out of mana starting at MAX MANA before, and me dying to that is about the same percentage as me surviving at 75HP or less. Both cases are rare.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But again, stop ignoring what I'm asking: is the hard part of a typical WW dragon fight that you run out of Mana but still have plenty of HP leftover, or (as I keep repeating) is the hard part surviving long enough to land slow?

75HP has never been the difference between life and death in a WW dragon fight for me pre-slow. I do not run extra HP items to increase my max HP for any WW dragon fight. If I was that low on HP and the dragon was unslowed, I would just die because WW dragons hit for around 200.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) A Barbarian Shaman who doesn't get high-end raid gear will not hit the Stamina cap until the very end of their Shaman career (if ever)

None of the Magelos posted here are high-end raid gear lol. Where are you getting this? You can cap stamina with EC bought items on a Barbarian, as shown in two different Magelos made by two different people. You clearly do not understand the difference between gear tiers.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can cap stamina with EC bought items on a Barbarian, as shown in two different Magelos made by two different people.

At least one of those "test profiles" reached high stamina by going hard enough for specific +stamina items that he actually lowered his health compared to what he could've had using some +HP items instead. One of the advantages to having good innate stamina is you don't need to make that type of tradeoff as much. On the other hand, as I reminded myself earlier, you don't actually need 205 stamina to cap it unless you want it capped fulltime. Otherwise you can cap it from 155 by stacking alchemy potions, good enough for occasional "trophy kill" situations.

My own experience in west wastes, when I've used the wife's shaman to solo there, is that mana tends to be the limiting factor because you can kite them to land malo/slow, and the most likely cause of trouble tends to be getting hordes of adds during a pull from a non-coastline dragon, and you can't torpor if you need to be moving, so that can strain the mana bar.

I would want higher health someplace like velketor where I might have to break a 4- or 5- pull and absorb considerable damage during the rooting process. I've done that using the shaman on occasion and due to low resist rates, HP are very much favored over mana for that type of scenario.

I haven't personally done any of the "trophy kill" stuff using the wife's shaman. We've done plenty of stuff duo, some of it quite tough, but if we're duo I'm on my Shadowknight, so I can't comment on those types of battles from a solo shaman's perspective. Stuff like west wastes, velketor, most of mischief, I regard as more meat-and-potatoes that nearly any max-level shaman who wants to solo will do at some point.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At least one of those "test profiles" reached high stamina by going hard enough for specific +stamina items that he actually lowered his health compared to what he could've had using some +HP items instead. One of the advantages to having good innate stamina is you don't need to make that type of tradeoff as much. On the other hand, as I reminded myself earlier, you don't actually need 205 stamina to cap it unless you want it capped fulltime. Otherwise you can cap it from 155 by stacking alchemy potions, good enough for occasional "trophy kill" situations.

My own experience in west wastes, when I've used the wife's shaman to solo there, is that mana tends to be the limiting factor because you can kite them to land malo/slow, and the most likely cause of trouble tends to be getting hordes of adds during a pull from a non-coastline dragon, and you can't torpor if you need to be moving, so that can strain the mana bar.

I would want higher health someplace like velketor where I might have to break a 4- or 5- pull and absorb considerable damage during the rooting process. I've done that using the shaman on occasion and due to low resist rates, HP are very much favored over mana for that type of scenario.

I haven't personally done any of the "trophy kill" stuff using the wife's shaman. We've done plenty of stuff duo, some of it quite tough, but if we're duo I'm on my Shadowknight, so I can't comment on those types of battles from a solo shaman's perspective.

Danth

Agreed. I am not trying to claim the goal is to max Stamina at all costs. My point is that there are multiple gear combinations that get you there, without the need for raid gear. Not everybody min/maxes their gear at all levels, and all of the example Magelos I saw in this thread so far are feasible goals for a casual Shaman. The point is simply that it is easier to cap STA than WIS, even with lower tier gear. So WIS is generally the better starting stat. Even when you are not capped, 75HP will rarely save you from dying. It just isn't a lot of HP at level 60 when everything hits for 140+ damage.

You are also correct about what you noticed about mana when fighting WW Dragons. People always forget that Shaman spells are expensive hehe. Pox is 430 mana, Malo is 350 mana, Insidious Decay is 100 mana, and Turgur's insects is 150 mana. One round of each spell is 1030 mana, which is 1/3 of a Shaman's mana bar at 3k mana. If you get a few resists on Pox or Turgurs that can easily be another 1000 mana. Plus you need to Torpor for 200 mana. You can quickly run out if you get unlucky.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On the other hand, as I reminded myself earlier, you don't actually need 205 stamina to cap it unless you want it capped fulltime. Otherwise you can cap it from 155 by stacking alchemy potions, good enough for occasional "trophy kill" situations.

Just so I don't get accused of ignoring it, the potion thing is undoubtedly a valid point for some people, and I haven't responded to it just because ... I agree with you (so there wasn't anything to say) [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Personally, I would never use Stamina (or any) potions for farming, because potions = negative plat, and the goal of farming is positive plat. But as we discussed earlier, different Shaman play differently, and if you're ok with burning through potions regularly then I 100% agree you can hit the Stamina cap faster than I've been making it out (maybe 95% of the way through your Shaman career instead of 99%?)

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My own experience in west wastes, when I've used the wife's shaman to solo there, is that mana tends to be the limiting factor because you can kite them to land malo/slow, and the most likely cause of trouble tends to be getting hordes of adds during a pull from a non-coastline dragon, and you can't torpor if you need to be moving, so that can strain the mana bar.

Honestly I haven't done nearly as many WW dragons as I've done other fights, and I also haven't done them in forever (unless you count helping kill them with my Green Mage). Maybe they (like the Sebilite Protectors) really do require mana more? I need to go watch some Youtube WW kills, or better yet actually play Loramin again (after letting him slumber on Blue for years).

Also, now I want to try soloing Sebilite Protectors with them: if one good thing has come out of this thread, it's that it's made me want to play my "first love" on this server again [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(BTW I still haven't even gotten him the headdress yet, even after you provided that super helpful write-up of how to do it. I'm such a slacker when it comes to Blue these days ...)