Solo Barbarian Shaman Stat Allocation

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Go WIS for your starting stat.

STA is generally easier to cap with Velious era gear.

You get 1-2 STA buffs (Riotous Health and Hammer of the Dragonborn clickie).

Do you even read the conversation before participating? This is a discussion of non-high-end raiding Shaman ... and you use an item from VP?

Everyone wants to argue with me, but no one wants to talk about what a non-guild (or at least non-top-end-guild) Shaman actually does with their time, and why more HP or more Mana would help them do it better.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you even read the conversation before participating? This is a discussion of non-high-end raiding Shaman ... and you use an item from VP?

I did read the conversation, you are just being stubborn and wrong[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Starting stats only really matter endgame due to stat scaling. 25 STA basically gives you nothing for the first 30 levels or so. The WIS is still going to give you more benefit even at lower levels. If 30HP was the difference between life and death at level 30ish, the problem wasn't your starting stats. More mana = less canni = more HP saved, even at lower levels. And pre-canni you are basically getting no HP from STA.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did read the conversation, you are just being stubborn and wrong[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Starting stats only really matter endgame due to stat scaling. 25 STA basically gives you nothing for the first 30 levels or so. The WIS is still going to give you more benefit even at lower levels. If 30HP was the difference between life and death at level 30ish, the problem wasn't your starting stats. More mana = less canni = more HP saved, even at lower levels. And pre-canni you are basically getting no HP from STA.

So what's "endgame" for a non-raid Shaman? Again, what are you thinking when you imagine "a non-raid Shaman" playing EQ?

I'm imagining that Shaman farming plat for upgrades, because that's the only way to get upgrades without raiding. I imagine them farming the places I keep repeating because they are uniquely good for Shaman and not for other classes (Crypt, WW Dragons, PoM A4, etc.). One other person in the thread imagines them soloing Sebilitie Protectors.

We have to be on the same page with what we're talking about or we're just talking past each other.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what's "endgame" for a non-raid Shaman? Again, what are you thinking when you imagine "a non-raid Shaman" playing EQ?

Level 60. For most casuals they never even get to 60. Stats scale with level, so the more casual (lower level probably) you are, the less they matter anyway. WIS scales better at all levels compared to STA for a Shaman, so you are still getting more bang for your buck. Again, more mana = less HP cannibalized.

[ArbiterBlixen]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm imagining that Shaman farming plat for upgrades, because that's the only way to get upgrades without raiding. I imagine them farming the places I keep repeating because they are uniquely good for Shaman and not for other classes (Crypt, WW Dragons, PoM A4, etc.). One other person in the thread imagines them soloing Sebilitie Protectors.

Why are you setting up weird little straw men?

I never imagined them soloing Sebilite Protectors. You asked me what I thought was a tough solo for a shaman and I answered, while also noting it's lack of relevancy.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why are you setting up weird little straw men?

I never imagined them soloing Sebilite Protectors. You asked me what I thought was a tough solo for a shaman and I answered, while also noting it's lack of relevancy.

No, I was trying to give your point credit ... but it seems even you agree that non-raid Shaman (who don't group or duo or do whatever else ... again, there are no absolutes for "all Shaman") are generally going to be doing the cash farming camps that I listed.

[ArbiterBlixen]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, I was trying to give your point credit ... but it seems even you agree that non-raid Shaman (who don't group or duo or do whatever else ... again, there are no absolutes for "all Shaman") are going to be doing the cash farming camps that I listed.

How does it give me credit? You claimed I imagined something I didn't imagine in a patronizing way. Thanks I guess?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How does it give me credit? You claimed I imagined something I didn't imagine in a patronizing way. Thanks I guess?

Before I was saying "Shaman mainly do these camps and at them HP > mana". Then you came along and said "here's a camp where mana matters more" (I remain suspicious, but I've never done Protectors so I've deferred to your greater experience there for now).

After you made your point, I started taking pains to qualify my point to say "not all Shaman" (ie. not all Shaman solo the places I listed, and the ones that solo other ones like Protector maybe would benefit from more mana). I've listed your example, of Protectors, as a counterpoint to my own. Because again, not all Shaman are the same, and if I want to be accurate and correct and not just a forum blowhard, I want to be on the same page with people I'm talking to, and that means not claiming some camp I've never done is better with more HP.

But that ... repeating your point over and over as a counter to my own ... is patronizing you, I guess?

[ArbiterBlixen]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what's "endgame" for a non-raid Shaman? Again, what are you thinking when you imagine "a non-raid Shaman" playing EQ?

I'm imagining that Shaman farming plat for upgrades, because that's the only way to get upgrades without raiding. I imagine them farming the places I keep repeating because they are uniquely good for Shaman and not for other classes (Crypt, WW Dragons, PoM A4, etc.). One other person in the thread imagines them soloing Sebilitie Protectors.

We have to be on the same page with what we're talking about or we're just talking past each other.

I don't imagine them soloing Sebilite Protectors. Again that was brought up in response to a question of yours and I noted that it wasn't relevant.

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So a fight against Sebilite Protector for example. You are going to want that mana. He has really high MR so root doesn't last more than a few seconds, and he could take 4-7 slow attempts on average. You won't be able to torpor and you really can't stand and take hits.

Anyway this is mostly irrelevant.

The reason i call this a straw man is because you were arguing that the rest of us weren't evaluating the situation appropriately as it pertains to OP. And you have me set up like a straw man.

straw man
/ˌstrô ˈman/
noun

1. an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

[JDAm0nk]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you even read the conversation before participating? This is a discussion of non-high-end raiding Shaman ... and you use an item from VP?

Everyone wants to argue with me, but no one wants to talk about what a non-guild (or at least non-top-end-guild) Shaman actually does with their time, and why more HP or more Mana would help them do it better.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Before 60 no one is maxing any stats, so I'be been assuming the conversation starts at 60: personally I'm not even trying to discuss <60 here.

Jesus wept...