One change you'd love to see?

[Ooloo]

You dorks, the point of the analogy is that if we were to do that with sports, it would completely eliminate everything that makes them interesting, and also everything that makes achievements feel like achievements.

Again, you can easily play wow or EQ2 and you can have a lvl 80 flying mount character or whatever on day 1! And you can join a guild, and run instances and eventually kill the mob! But guess what? Even with instances, people will brag and gloat over which guild killed the instanced raid boss faster, or with fewer attempts, or with fewer people, because human nature. You're signing up for a different flavor of the exact same thing, it just has far less social interaction, which is the entire point of a massively-multiplayer game. I mean for me personally, one of the most enjoyable parts of competitive EQ is sitting around shooting the shit with people in other guilds who you are directly competing with while you wait for a mob to spawn. And forming alliances where sometimes you team up with another guild, and sometimes you don't, and sometimes you betray one another, and sometimes victories feel cheap, or well-deserved. It's a much richer experience, it's actually social, you actually remember specific people who you hate or who you love. If everyone can get everything on demand, it's all cheap and plastic and phony.

[Ghost of Starman]

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If everyone can get everything on demand, it's all cheap and plastic and phony.

It's a video game. Not only that, it's a emulated timelocked MMO from 20+ years ago that has been fully mapped out and "solved". If you are trying to approach a game like this as a competitive sport your life priorities got twisted somewhere along the way, especially since "competing" in the current P99 raid meta involves recruiting as many terminally online individuals into your guild as possible to swarm down targets within minutes of spawning.

The most simple of real life achievements eclipses any sort of faux achievement reached on P99. Successfully making a mortgage payment, completing a shift at work, raising your kids, or kissing a woman are 100x more impressive. Even the biggest NEET who refuses to acknowledge this knows it's true subconsciously.

I know its mind-warping for the sweatiest of neckbeards that have sunk tens of thousands of hours into P99 by this point in the projects life to comprehend, but most people play MMOs for relaxation and socialization; a break from their busy, hectic lives of accomplishing things in the real world. They would like to experience whatever content is available in the game with their friends because its fun.

The raid scene on P99 is not fun. Everyone knows that the people driving the current raid meta get their enjoyment from gatekeeping, multiple people in this thread have already brought it up. This has lead to countless hundreds if not thousands of people being driven away from the P99 servers in disgust over the last 10+ years, creating a closed loop where you only have the most addicted or twisted individuals participating.

If you want a sports analogy, raiding on P99 is more akin to playing a casual flag football game at a family picnic and having a bunch of greasy 400 pound manchildren show up out of no where tackling your grandma while doing victory dances until you leave in disgust, at which point that call your family "losers" for not wanting to "compete".

It's a shame because there is so much potential in P99 that will never be fully reached; I guarantee if the code of P99 was transferred to a new server with the only change being instanced raiding the population would quickly eclipse the combined populations of blue/green.

[Ooloo]

Originally Posted by Ghost of Starman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's a video game. Not only that, it's a emulated timelocked MMO from 20+ years ago that has been fully mapped out and "solved". If you are trying to approach a game like this as a competitive sport your life priorities got twisted somewhere along the way, especially since "competing" in the current P99 raid meta involves recruiting as many terminally online individuals into your guild as possible to swarm down targets within minutes of spawning.

The most simple of real life achievements eclipses any sort of faux achievement reached on P99. Successfully making a mortgage payment, completing a shift at work, raising your kids, or kissing a woman are 100x more impressive. Even the biggest NEET who refuses to acknowledge this knows it's true subconsciously.

I know its mind-warping for the sweatiest of neckbeards that have sunk tens of thousands of hours into P99 by this point in the projects life to comprehend, but most people play MMOs for relaxation and socialization; a break from their busy, hectic lives of accomplishing things in the real world. They would like to experience whatever content is available in the game with their friends because its fun.

The raid scene on P99 is not fun. Everyone knows that the people driving the current raid meta get their enjoyment from gatekeeping, multiple people in this thread have already brought it up. This has lead to countless hundreds if not thousands of people being driven away from the P99 servers in disgust over the last 10+ years, creating a closed loop where you only have the most addicted or twisted individuals participating.

If you want a sports analogy, raiding on P99 is more akin to playing a casual flag football game at a family picnic and having a bunch of greasy 400 pound manchildren show up out of no where tackling your grandma while doing victory dances until you leave in disgust, at which point that call your family "losers" for not wanting to "compete".

It's a shame because there is so much potential in P99 that will never be fully reached; I guarantee if the code of P99 was transferred to a new server with the only change being instanced raiding the population would quickly eclipse the combined populations of blue/green.

Well see the problem with your thesis here is that I find raiding on P99 extremely fun. And if another guild gets a mob, it's fun to figure out what you did wrong and how to correct it strategically in the future, notwithstanding the simple meta which as I said earlier I do wish would be changed to be harder and more unpredictable. And sure, I have no doubt that instanced raiding would likely inflate the population, but so what? We already know that, look at wow's sub numbers. That's not the point of this project though, this project is specifically intended for a certain playstyle, and despite all the moaning green still had 1000+ concurrent last night. I'm perfectly happy admitting that I like a niche thing, who cares.

The whole "it's a 20 year old game" thing is another fallacious point; what game HASNT been completely figured out that is even one year old or more at this point? Almost nothing. You're also doing the mind reading thing where you think you know everyone else' s motivations for raiding competitively on p99. You don't; you're just projecting a kind of generic charicature of p99 raiders on hundreds of people you don't know and have never met.

It never ceases to amaze me when people complain that p99 should abandon one of it's core principles (that is, no instancing). Like, there are tons of mmos that have it. You can even play classic EQ on a tlp with instancing. There's stuff I'd like changed here but really not very much. The only things that come to mind are things that were clearly oversights or bugs by the devs, like druid track being completely useless and broken for most of the timeline until late velious, stuff like that.

I don't even raid in a "top" guild, I do raid in a guild that competes with top guilds and sometimes wins targets, and it's just a ton of fun to see how a given encounter plays out especially when it's contested... It's just really fun, dunno what to tell ya.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well see the problem with your thesis here is that I find raiding on P99 extremely fun. And if another guild gets a mob, it's fun to figure out what you did wrong and how to correct it strategically in the future, notwithstanding the simple meta which as I said earlier I do wish would be changed to be harder and more unpredictable. And sure, I have no doubt that instanced raiding would likely inflate the population, but so what? We already know that, look at wow's sub numbers. That's not the point of this project though, this project is specifically intended for a certain playstyle, and despite all the moaning green still had 1000+ concurrent last night. I'm perfectly happy admitting that I like a niche thing, who cares.

The whole "it's a 20 year old game" thing is another fallacious point; what game HASNT been completely figured out that is even one year old or more at this point? Almost nothing. You're also doing the mind reading thing where you think you know everyone else' s motivations for raiding competitively on p99. You don't; you're just projecting a kind of generic charicature of p99 raiders on hundreds of people you don't know and have never met.

It never ceases to amaze me when people complain that p99 should abandon one of it's core principles (that is, no instancing). Like, there are tons of mmos that have it. You can even play classic EQ on a tlp with instancing. There's stuff I'd like changed here but really not very much. The only things that come to mind are things that were clearly oversights or bugs by the devs, like druid track being completely useless and broken for most of the timeline until late velious, stuff like that.

I don't even raid in a "top" guild, I do raid in a guild that competes with top guilds and sometimes wins targets, and it's just a ton of fun to see how a given encounter plays out especially when it's contested... It's just really fun, dunno what to tell ya.

Little bit tough to take anyone who is a vaccine conspiracy theorist seriously.

[caveslug]

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It never ceases to amaze me when people complain that p99 should abandon one of it's core principles (that is, no instancing).

One of it's core principles is to be "classic" something they are happy to ignore on many things.

They could very well keep the open world raid targets live, for the people who want that "challenge". Meanwhile the vast majority of players will enjoy seeing a part of the game they have never seen.