Shaman spell cost

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Killing guards is another good method to gain steady plat if you don't have another money maker. Generally speaking most Fine Steel guard spots net you roughly 300pp an hour. If you kill guards for 1 hour a day, in 14 weeks you will have 30k. That will get you all of your 55-60 spells minus Torpor and Bane of Nife.

Avoid buying Bane of Nife until you have everything else. Bane of Nife can be useful in certain situations, but it is much less reliable than Pox, due to mobs resisting poison more often than disease.

If you are on Green where spells cost a lot more, you will probably need to do some item camps to generate money faster. I would advise that you get to 60, and kill guards to get enough money for Malo. Malo is your top priority spell. At level 60 when you have Malo and Tigirs Insects, you are still fairly useful, even without Torpor. You could probably get in to Ixiblat Fer groups as the primary slower, for chances at Cloak of Flames. I got in to Fungi Tunic groups when I didn't have Torpor on Blue before Green was launched, but I am not sure if that is still possible.

[ArbiterBlixen]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Avoid buying Bane of Nife until you have everything else. Bane of Nife can be useful in certain situations, but it is much less reliable than Pox, due to mobs resisting poison more often than disease.

Just checked the logs on one of my computers and got the following resist rates for Pox and Bane:

Pox: 27.34%
Bane: 23.07%

My impression is that common mobs for the most part have equal Disease and Poison resists. I would guess the rate is actually the same over a larger sample. This laptop had about 250 casts of each.

I'm interested to hear what your logs show. I haven't checked my other computers' logs yet.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just checked the logs on one of my computers and got the following resist rates for Pox and Bane:

Pox: 27.34%
Bane: 23.07%

My impression is that common mobs for the most part have equal Disease and Poison resists. I would guess the rate is actually the same over a larger sample. This laptop had about 250 casts of each.

I'm interested to hear what your logs show. I haven't checked my other computers' logs yet.

I don't have any hard data, I've generally just seen more resists on Bane, even when the mob is Malo'ed. But let us take that off the table and assume you are right. It is very possible I am just getting bad luck with Bane, and I don't have the data to prove it either way.

Pox is still the superior spell over Bane. Both cost the same amount of mana, but Pox does more damage, and takes longer to clear. This means you have more time between Pox casts to regain your mana for the next round of DoTs, debuffs, etc.

Don't get me wrong, Bane still has it's uses. I used it a lot when soloing 4 way in Kael, because those mobs have a lot of innate HP regen. But when fighting WW Dragons, I never use it because it just wastes a lot more mana. It's much safer to kill the Dragon a bit slower, and save your mana for whatever may happen during the fight.

But when you have to pick between the two due to money concerns, Pox is the superior spell every time, and not a lot of fights (at least in my experience) require you to use both. Normally one is enough, plus your other DPS from things like JBB, Epic, and Pet.

That is why I usually put Bane at the bottom of the list of expensive spells. It is the least used of my expensive spells.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

takes longer to clear

This seems like a pure negative. For example if it were a nuke you could just casts it every 1.8 minutes like you do now to the same effect, but you would have the option to pump on the gas if needed.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This seems like a pure negative. For example if it were a nuke you could just casts it every 1.8 minutes like you do now to the same effect, but you would have the option to pump on the gas if needed.

I agree it seems a bit counter-intuitive, but the reality is Shaman spells are very expensive, and Shamans only have 4 flexible spell slots typically. Normally you have Canni 4, Torpor, Turgurs Insects, and Malo on bar at all times. It can be tough to fit even two DoTs. Even with Torpor, you can run out of mana. Take a look at this video, where I am fighting Bravatar (a WW Dragon).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igpbLuNe0ls

By the end of the fight, I am around 40% life and 10% Mana. If I had used Bane instead of Pox, I would be burning through my mana much faster, due to it's shorter duration. WW Dragons have high innate regen, so whenever your buffs wear off you are losing time because their regen starts healing them again.

Now, could I try to power through the fight with Bane to save a few minutes? Yes, but it is riskier. In my experience saving a minute or two via increased DPS is not worth the increased risk of having to start the fight over, which takes much longer due to healing, repositioning, repulling, etc.

Being a Torpor Shaman involves understanding how quickly you can use HP/Mana during a fight safely, and from my experience Pox gives you a more stable experience, even if it is a bit slower.

Having a longer period between re-casting DoTs means you have more time to Cannibalize/Torpor. Shamans also cast a LOT of spells, so reducing how often you cast can help in a fight too.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Take a look at this video, where I am fighting Bravatar (a WW Dragon).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igpbLuNe0ls

Now, could I try to power through the fight with Bane to save a few minutes? Yes, but it is riskier.

You are such a bad player. Torpor isn't being maintained, not even close to having full uptime. It needs to be kept up perma, as that is the entire engine to allow maximum Canni usage. You aren't even keeping the Disease and Epic DoT's maintained properly.

It's definitely better to be using Bane of Knife along with the Disease DoT in this fight, as killing the target faster creates more efficiency. Look at how you even waste mana on recasting Malo because of how slow you are to kill. Not to mention, killing faster is simply better anyway, more time to move onto the next thing.

Telling people to avoid getting Bane of Knife until last resort is awful advice. That spell helps a ton when trying to level/farm or for general grouping to generate DPS, where most of the time a Disease DoT is not going to be lasting anywhere close to full duration on a pull.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are such a bad player. Torpor isn't being maintained, not even close to having full uptime. It needs to be kept up perma, as that is the entire engine to allow maximum Canni usage. You aren't even keeping the Disease and Epic DoT's maintained properly.

It's definitely better to be using Bane of Knife along with the Disease DoT in this fight, as killing the target faster creates more efficiency. Look at how you even waste mana on recasting Malo because of how slow you are to kill. Not to mention, killing faster is simply better anyway, more time to move onto the next thing.

Telling people to avoid getting Bane of Knife until last resort is awful advice. That spell helps a ton when trying to level/farm or for general grouping to generate DPS, where most of the time a Disease DoT is not going to be lasting anywhere close to full duration on a pull.

Post some videos of yourself, oh supposed grandmaster[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] You can theory craft in your perfect non practical situations all you want, but that doesn't mean you are right. Show us how you Torpor Shaman.

This also shows how bad you are at understanding DPS, or even Shamans. Most groups clear content so fast that using Bane or Pox would be a waste of mana lol. This is especially true before you get Torpor. The spell costs 425 mana, which is a lot even for a Torpor Shaman. But again, you think DPS is magic, so I am not suprised by this bad take.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This seems like a pure negative. For example if it were a nuke you could just casts it every 1.8 minutes like you do now to the same effect, but you would have the option to pump on the gas if needed.

What DeathsSilkyMist is failing to consider (as he often does) is that there exists a world outside his head, and not every fight is the 18-minute WW Dragon fight he imagines.

To your point, it's obviously more nuanced: sometimes you want to kill as quickly as possible, sometimes you want to get the most damage you can for your mana. For the longer fights, Pox is clearly superior (although even so, I still use Bane on long fights ... it's just that when I'm low on mana I stop).

But on the other hand, if you want to kill a mob quickly (say, before it agroes another mob), obviously Bane and nukes are superior. Some fights are even fast enough that Pox won't last the entire fight, which can make it even less efficient than Bane.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What DeathsSilkyMist is failing to consider (as he often does) is that there exists a world outside his head, and not every fight is the 18-minute WW Dragon fight he imagines.

To your point, it's obviously more nuanced: sometimes you want to kill as quickly as possible, sometimes you want to get the most damage you can for your mana. For the longer fights, Pox is clearly superior (although even so, I still use Bane on long fights ... it's just that when I'm low on mana I stop).

But on the other hand, if you want to kill a mob quickly (say, before it agroes another mob), obviously Bane and nukes are superior. Some fights are even fast enough that Pox won't last the entire fight, which can make it even less efficient than Bane.

I didn't fail to consider fights outside of WW dragons[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I simply have a video to show a quick example, which is more tangible than pure text. I see you have not posted any videos to back up your ideas. I even used Kael 4 way as a different example for when Bane is useful.

Bane is the lesser of the two end game DoT spells. Nobody said it is useless, it is simply the least useful of the expensive spells, which is why you shouldn't prioritize it if you are budgeting money.