shaman chest piece question

[ArbiterBlixen]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As I said before, you are free to play however you want. That doesn't mean your method of play is objectively superior.

https://youtu.be/4Rzw3wLWEsM?t=2060 Take a look at this video of me pulling King Tranix with a full room of Giants. I lost 80% of my HP in 30 seconds trying to get everything CC'ed. I am not trying to claim this is a good video either, I made far too many mistakes.

In 30 seconds Fungi Tunic would have saved me 75HP, which is a paltry 3% of my total pool, and less HP than the +100HP from Vindi BP. Fungi Tunic would have been worthless here, because the extra AC from Vindi BP could easily mitigate more than 3% of my total pool, depending on luck.

You say fungi would have been worthless here. But so was your vindi BP. Unless you’re suggesting it provided 20% hp worth of mitigation? You would have survived bare chested.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by ArbiterBlixen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You say fungi would have been worthless here. But so was your vindi BP. Unless you’re suggesting it provided 20% hp worth of mitigation? You would have survived bare chested.

AC is going to have a better shot of mitigating damage than Fungi Tunic. Fungi Tunic is 75HP no matter what. These giants have a damage range of around 28 to 126. AC could easily mitigate 500 damage if it reduced 5 attacks from 126 to 28. And that is indeed 20% of my total HP. I am not tanking AoW, who basically ignores AC for all intents and purposes.

The problem is Fungi Tunic is simply too consistent when you have Torpor. Not only was the max HP from Vindi BP still more than the regen at 30 seconds, but the extra AC could have easily mitigated hundreds of damage.

[greenspectre]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but the extra AC could have easily mitigated hundreds of damage.

Not to mention if the AC increase means you dodge even ONE hit that would have otherwise interrupted a torpor, it literally saved your life. I know channeling is pretty reliable on this server (compared to TAKP oh lord is it ever) but I'd think the most important thing in fights like these is *successfully casting torpor*. This is less of a concern for ogres but it's still possible to be interrupted even with FSI. Granted it's impossible to ever know which hits you avoided strictly due to the AC difference between a Fungi and a Vindi BP, but still.

Seems like somebody could do a video running some trials of fungi vs vindi during an encounter to see what their HP was once stable and compare?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by greenspectre [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seems like somebody could do a video running some trials of fungi vs vindi during an encounter to see what their HP was once stable and compare?

Honestly, in the grand scheme of things the difference between the two is so minute that you could probably do fifty test runs and still see no difference between the two tunics.

Ultimately over long periods of time the fungi is better, and for shorter periods (eg. raid fights) the Vindi BP is clearly better ... but you could compare a Vindi BP Shaman, to a Fungi Shaman, to a Nekid (in their chest slot) Shaman, and be hard pressed to see a difference for 99% of fights.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Honestly, in the grand scheme of things the difference between the two is so minute that you could probably do fifty test runs and still see no difference between the two tunics.

Ultimately over long periods of time the fungi is better, and for shorter periods (eg. raid fights) the Vindi BP is clearly better ... but you could compare a Vindi BP Shaman, to a Fungi Shaman, to a Nekid (in their chest slot) Shaman, and be hard pressed to see a difference for 99% of fights.

OP is asking about which Chest piece is better, not whether or not a chest piece is required. I agree with you that Torpor is so good you don't need top of the line gear for most situations, but loot is a primary mechanic in Everquest, and it does help you win fights.

For a Torpor Shaman there is no "long periods of time". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjZxMlJSCDc A Torpor Shaman can go from low HP and MP to full HP and MP in 3 minutes. You never need to be ticking regen between fights.

And for shorter periods of time you are generally talking about fights lasting no longer than 10 minutes, which means Fungi Tunic is giving you 1500HP at best over the 10 minutes, which is simply one Torpor. Generally speaking 1 Torpor (200 mana) would not have made a difference. The extra AC/HP/Resists from Vindi BP could make a difference in terms of reducing damage spikes.

If you have Fungi Tunic and Vindi BP, you can obviously use them as you wish. But I wouldn't recommend buying a Fungi Tunic if you already have a Vindi BP, you simply won't use it much. That Fungi Tunic would be better suited on an alt. And if you don't have Vindi BP, I would recommend getting it over just sticking with Fungi Tunic, as it is simply better.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For a Torpor Shaman there is no "long periods of time". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjZxMlJSCDc A Torpor Shaman can go from low HP and MP to full HP and MP in 3 minutes. You never need to be ticking regen between fights.

This isn't true at all. Let's say you are farming safety XP: you're going to be playing for an extended period of time. The extra stats from Vindi BP aren't going to help you kill those XP mobs meaningfully faster ... but wearing your Fungi while you do it will save you a few Torpor casts over the entire XP session.

Again, it's not going to make a huge (or even medium-sized) difference either way, but objectively-speaking wearing the Fungi and having to cast Torpor less will be better in that case.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This isn't true at all. Let's say you are farming safety XP: you're going to be playing for an extended period of time. The extra stats from Vindi BP aren't going to help you kill those XP mobs meaningfully faster ... but wearing your Fungi while you do it will save you a few Torpor casts over the entire XP session.

Again, it's not going to make a huge (or even medium-sized) difference either way, but objectively-speaking wearing the Fungi and having to cast Torpor less will be better in that case.

In that case its irrelevant what you are wearing, and saving one minute on torpor at then end of the session isn't going to matter. So just stick with the Vindi BP and give your fungi to an alt[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So just stick with the Vindi BP and give your fungi to an alt[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was going to write something similar but you got there first. I see where Arbiter and Loramin are coming from in the sense that you can reach a point where your gear gives you enough durability and room for error to feel comfortable for the content you do and the only effect you notice anymore is maybe casting a little bit fewer heals here and there. They aren't wrong in that sense and nobody ever hurt himself by having a fungus tunic handy. However in most cases by the time someone reaches that point, if they have a fungus tunic at all it'll already be transferred to a melee alt where it can do some real good. If a player keeps it on his shaman, yeah, use it where appropriate if inclined. As the content gets easier (which includes out-gearing stuff) the worn regen gets better, even if "better" is reduced simply to a slight effort reduction as opposed to any difference in odds of success.

It matters so little in practice that the wife doesn't have a regen BP on her shaman even though at no point in the past 5+ years (and more) have we not had enough money to buy one if she wanted it. This is very much an academic discussion at this point, but I appreciate a level discussion about a shared hobby versus the all-too-frequent forum flame-fests.

Originally Posted by greenspectre [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Granted it's impossible to ever know which hits you avoided strictly due to the AC difference between a Fungi and a Vindi BP, but still.

In theory you should avoid close to zero hits because worn AC shouldn't be affecting avoidance. Certainly it won't affect dodge. The additional AC should be reducing the average damage roll on successful hits, not the raw chance to hit in the first place. The -10 agility on the fungus could affect hit chance, slightly, so I call it close to zero instead of zero, although the effect from 10 agility is close enough to zero that particular point is largely moot. Dodge should work based on the character's dodge skill only. Raw miss chance works from a combination of things like defense skill, agility, etc. The caveat here is as always: We don't actually know whether P99's mechanics in this sense fully mimic EQ-Live, so I can only discuss how it presumably works, not necessarily how it really does.

Danth

[greenspectre]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In theory you should avoid close to zero hits because worn AC shouldn't be affecting avoidance. Certainly it won't affect dodge. The additional AC should be reducing the average damage roll on successful hits, not the raw chance to hit in the first place. The -10 agility on the fungus could affect hit chance, slightly, so I call it close to zero instead of zero, although the effect from 10 agility is close enough to zero that particular point is largely moot. Dodge should work based on the character's dodge skill only. Raw miss chance works from a combination of things like defense skill, agility, etc. The caveat here is as always: We don't actually know whether P99's mechanics in this sense fully mimic EQ-Live, so I can only discuss how it presumably works, not necessarily how it really does.

Danth

This one I did not know. I had always thought AC both decreased damage taken and increased chances of avoiding a hit altogether. The more you know!

[Danth]

Originally Posted by greenspectre [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This one I did not know. I had always thought AC both decreased damage taken and increased chances of avoiding a hit altogether. The more you know!

It does in the sense that your AC score you see when you open your inventory does include all of that. Just it's a combined value; your mitigation AC and avoidance AC come from different sources. I cannot stress enough that the above assumes P99's AC system works like original EQ's did, which I have my own doubts about. In practice, I think it's safe to say "more is better" although we can debate how much more it takes to be X amount better.