5-4 incoming?

[Reiwa]

Originally Posted by starkind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So far G-d says no suicide. Make Satan kill you. That could change tho.

Yep God says no suiciding. Even slowly poisoning yourself. He sees that. 👀

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Reiwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yep God says no suiciding. Even slowly poisoning yourself. He sees that. ��

The reason you will see civilized society resist allowing citizens to kill themselves with drugs or just kill themselves in general is the assumption that they are not in their right state of mind when making that decision

It’s not the same state of mind someone would be in if they were deciding what kind of car to buy. With drugs their mind is twisted by the physical and mental dependence causing severe chemical changes in their brain, and with suicide there can be a possibility of depression or some other mental illness warping their thoughts

So it’s not like moral people will ever throw their hands up and be like “adults should be free to choose with their autonomy!” They should be free to choose when in a healthy state of mind. Just like we don’t legally accept contracts that someone signs when under duress or intoxicated

[starkind]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The reason you will see civilized society resist allowing citizens to kill themselves with drugs or just kill themselves in general is the assumption that they are not in their right state of mind when making that decision

It’s not the same state of mind someone would be in if they were deciding what kind of car to buy. With drugs their mind is twisted by the physical and mental dependence causing severe chemical changes in their brain, and with suicide there can be a possibility of depression or some other mental illness warping their thoughts

So it’s not like moral people will ever throw their hands up and be like “adults should be free to choose with their autonomy!” They should be free to choose when in a healthy state of mind. Just like we don’t legally accept contracts that someone signs when under duress or intoxicated

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[starkind]

Originally Posted by Kaveh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree man, we judge drug addicts and alcoholics but we do nothing to treat them. You can’t even hold a drug addict at a hospital against their will if they are alert and oriented and not professing suicidal ideation. It took years for me and my nephew (before he gave up) to get my brother in law into even some kind of treatment for prescription opioids. By that time he had lost everything

You literally have to sober up for 5 minutes and know your name, location, month, who the president is and say I’m not suicidal and they let you on your merry way to go hop behind the wheel with a handful of pills or whatever else, etc

We absolutely don’t care at all about addicts or the mentally ill in America

Originally Posted by starkind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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also yep

[Kaveh]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The reason you will see civilized society resist allowing citizens to kill themselves with drugs or just kill themselves in general is the assumption that they are not in their right state of mind when making that decision

It’s not the same state of mind someone would be in if they were deciding what kind of car to buy. With drugs their mind is twisted by the physical and mental dependence causing severe chemical changes in their brain, and with suicide there can be a possibility of depression or some other mental illness warping their thoughts

So it’s not like moral people will ever throw their hands up and be like “adults should be free to choose with their autonomy!” They should be free to choose when in a healthy state of mind. Just like we don’t legally accept contracts that someone signs when under duress or intoxicated

I disagree man, we judge drug addicts and alcoholics but we do nothing to treat them. You can’t even hold a drug addict at a hospital against their will if they are alert and oriented and not professing suicidal ideation. It took years for me and my nephew (before he gave up) to get my brother in law into even some kind of treatment for prescription opioids. By that time he had lost everything

You literally have to sober up for 5 minutes and know your name, location, month, who the president is and say I’m not suicidal and they let you on your merry way to go hop behind the wheel with a handful of pills or whatever else, etc

We absolutely don’t care at all about addicts or the mentally ill in America

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Kaveh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree man, we judge drug addicts and alcoholics but we do nothing to treat them. You can’t even hold a drug addict at a hospital against their will if they are alert and oriented and not professing suicidal ideation. It took years for me and my nephew (before he gave up) to get my brother in law into even some kind of treatment for prescription opioids. By that time he had lost everything

You literally have to sober up for 5 minutes and know your name, location, month, who the president is and say I’m not suicidal and they let you on your merry way to go hop behind the wheel with a handful of pills or whatever else, etc

We absolutely don’t care at all about addicts or the mentally ill in America

No you are right. If someone wants to continue to use a drug until it kills them there is almost no way to stop it using the mental health system

This is why I have always been a proponent of forced involuntary drug treatment decided via “drug courts” (new programs some states have adopted). Drug courts basically give people two options: forced treatment in a rehab setting or jail/prison

This is also why the legal system is the only way to prevent or delay someone’s drug suicide. But then you’re putting them in a jail/prison setting which are terrible, so it all circles back to forced rehab being the best thing

“Why not just turn the other cheek? Someone can eat themselves to death whenever they want” In my opinion drugs like meth, heroin, alcohol are worse than food addiction because the chemical dependence in the brain is stronger and the physical withdrawal is infinitely worse (at least for alcohol and heroin)

[Rethalis]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No you are right. If someone wants to continue to use a drug until it kills them there is almost no way to stop it using the mental health system

This is why I have always been a proponent of forced involuntary drug treatment decided via “drug courts” (new programs some states have adopted). Drug courts basically give people two options: forced treatment in a rehab setting or jail/prison

This is also why the legal system is the only way to prevent or delay someone’s drug suicide. But then you’re putting them in a jail/prison setting which are terrible, so it all circles back to forced rehab being the best thing

“Why not just turn the other cheek? Someone can eat themselves to death whenever they want” In my opinion drugs like meth, heroin, alcohol are worse than food addiction because the chemical dependence in the brain is stronger and the physical withdrawal is infinitely worse (at least for alcohol and heroin)

Can confirm, I live in one of the west coast cities that are just crippled by drugs and alcohol. I volunteered for the better part of two years helping at risk people learn computers and build their resumes.

At the time there was a tiered system where the benefits and help came with the persons progress through the system. First step was getting clean, and basic hygiene services are available with clean clothes ect. Next was help getting a job and housing. All coupled with drug treatment programs and learning.

Never really made any connections outside the computer lab, but I do know not many people made it past that point as they went back to drugs. All the tools were there and available for them to integrate back into society. I have talked with the homeless about where they can go to get help, and then see the same person holding a different sign on the same corner at the same time different day.

What more can you do?

Its a terrible plague and affliction on the cities and individuals by all metrics.

[Kaveh]

Originally Posted by Rethalis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can confirm, I live in one of the west coast cities that are just crippled by drugs and alcohol. I volunteered for the better part of two years helping at risk people learn computers and build their resumes.

At the time there was a tiered system where the benefits and help came with the persons progress through the system. First step was getting clean, and basic hygiene services are available with clean clothes ect. Next was help getting a job and housing. All coupled with drug treatment programs and learning.

Never really made any connections outside the computer lab, but I do know not many people made it past that point as they went back to drugs. All the tools were there and available for them to integrate back into society. I have talked with the homeless about where they can go to get help, and then see the same person holding a different sign on the same corner at the same time different day.

What more can you do?

Its a terrible plague and affliction on the cities and individuals by all metrics.

But there’s a reason why we’re worse at it than Portugal. Good on you for volunteering. Helping my brother in law for literally 4.5 years drove me nuts so I can’t imagine helping randos off the street. I couldn’t do it. I’d honestly use force (violence) and prevent them from doing drugs. So like I said, couldn’t do it

[starkind]

Originally Posted by Reiwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yep God says no suiciding. Even slowly poisoning yourself. He sees that. ��

Yep. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

G-d also sees I'm doing the best I can every day to hallow myself - or others - [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what is the opposite of poisoning - that's my MO

cleansing, purifying
dignifying, elevating, ennobling, enshrining, glorifying, hallowing, magnifying, uplifting

clarifying, cleaning, clearing, distilling, purging
filtering
disinfecting, sanitizing, sterilizing

decontaminating, purifying

ameliorating, amending, bettering, enhancing, enriching, improving, meliorating, perfecting
clarifying, cleaning, cleansing, purifying, refining, restoring
respecting