Solution to List Camp Problems

[cd288]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is unclassic in the sense that the vast, vast majority of servers did not have multi-day lists. I think most reasonable people would agree that in a game with literally hundreds of camps, and more than twenty different live servers ... having a single camp with a single multi-day long line on a single server is not representative.

On virtually every camp in the game, on virtually every server, you were not rewarded for sitting in-game for 24+ hours. To put it another way, for 99.99+% of all classic players' playtime, the game did not reward sitting for days ... and therefore it makes absolutely no sense for our emulation of that game work to reward that activity.

I can't really discuss with you because you don't discuss in good faith. You force your opinion out there and then ignore things people say that contradict it. I've had this exact same conversation with you before.

How many servers did you play on in live during the classic era? Because I was CSR on a ton of them in addition to the couple that I played on. And many of those had player made lists for various camps. I wouldn't say there were extensive lists for a thing like Beads, but things like JBoots pre-quest, the AC after, etc. had player made lists on many servers. Often times quite long ones. The only reason that some people didn't spend days on the list was because account sharing wasn't common because people didn't trust each other. If people had trusted each other with their accounts, then you would have seen a character sitting at a camp for days.

As an aside, saying that people didn't sit for more than 24 hours at any camp in the game is crazy talk. Classic EQ is filled with stories of people doing this at certain camps because of how crazy rare some items, spawns, or quest drops were. Think about Hadden and Grimrot as simple examples. Plenty of people have spent more than 24 hours at those camps.

I extensively experienced the majority of EQ's servers in the classic era when combined with CSR and the couple servers I played on. I'm guessing you experienced maybe 5 at absolute most. Quit acting like your experience and opinion is what the rest of classic EQ players experienced. What you experienced is likely not what some other people experienced because it varied by server.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can't really discuss with you because you don't discuss in good faith. You force your opinion out there and then ignore things people say that contradict it. I've had this exact same conversation with you before.

How many servers did you play on in live during the classic era? Because I was CSR on a ton of them in addition to the couple that I played on. And many of those had player made lists for various camps. I wouldn't say there were extensive lists for a thing like Beads, but things like JBoots pre-quest, the AC after, etc. had player made lists on many servers. Often times quite long ones. The only reason that some people didn't spend days on the list was because account sharing wasn't common because people didn't trust each other. If people had trusted each other with their accounts, then you would have seen a character sitting at a camp for days.

As an aside, saying that people didn't sit for more than 24 hours at any camp in the game is crazy talk. Classic EQ is filled with stories of people doing this at certain camps because of how crazy rare some items, spawns, or quest drops were. Think about Hadden and Grimrot as simple examples. Plenty of people have spent more than 24 hours at those camps.

I extensively experienced the majority of EQ's servers in the classic era when combined with CSR and the couple servers I played on. I'm guessing you experienced maybe 5 at absolute most. Quit acting like your experience and opinion is what the rest of classic EQ players experienced. What you experienced is likely not what some other people experienced because it varied by server.

So is there any evidence of these multi-day long lists in the classic era? Surely someone would have talked about them on a forum?

I'd be especially interested in ones that went even longer than 48 hours, but really anything >24 hours would be interesting.

[Tewaz]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So is there any evidence of these multi-day long lists in the classic era? Surely someone would have talked about them on a forum?

I'd be especially interested in ones that went even longer than 48 hours, but really anything >24 hours would be interesting.

We all know there wasn't because people didn't know the items were being removed.

Also, how strong did people think a manastone, prenerf staff, or elder beads were?

They probably had no idea.

[Synphul]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So is there any evidence of these multi-day long lists in the classic era? Surely someone would have talked about them on a forum?

I'd be especially interested in ones that went even longer than 48 hours, but really anything >24 hours would be interesting.

I'm sure there's lots of stories where people said they spent 24, 48, or 60 hours at a camp back then but the probability of 'plenty of people' spending 24 hours+ at one camp continuously like /list encourages in the days of dial-up and spotty ISDN lines within the first 3 expansions is hard to swallow. Especially considering, as others have stated, the value of most of these items wasn't really known until after they were removed.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Synphul [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sure there's lots of stories where people said they spent 24, 48, or 60 hours at a camp back then but the probability of 'plenty of people' spending 24 hours+ at one camp continuously like /list encourages in the days of dial-up and spotty ISDN lines within the first 3 expansions is hard to swallow. Especially considering, as others have stated, the value of most of these items wasn't really known until after they were removed.

You think people didn't know the value of JBoots? Lol

We're not just talking about the current /list items here

[Synphul]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You think people didn't know the value of JBoots? Lol

We're not just talking about the current /list items here

That behavior still wasn't the norm by any stretch. My servers on live had some player made lists (most people made list macros), but it was never people sitting for 24+ hours straight that I experienced or heard about and I was on every EQ forum I found back then. You went down the list seeing if people were on and it was a rare thing to even find the first few people online if it had been more than an hour or two. The list itself might have had enough names on it to be days long, but you'd have to go through tons of names to find who was actually still online when it came time to hand it off. I do remember the AC list would keep you on it even if you logged off for a few hours if it hadn't gotten to you yet, but you could still log off and not lose your place if you were later in the list and not been /tell'd. You weren't locked into your seat or the game. As Loramin said there should be people talking about their 24+ hour-straight Jolt Cola-infused camp sessions all over the forums from the era if it was the norm across any server. You sure see it here. With most peoples' shitty internet it just wasn't even doable for the vast majority of players at the time logistically.

I'm not saying there weren't lists back then, but they were in no way regularly causing what we see here where people are literally glued to their computer for 24-60 hours straight. Anyone doing that on Live was the extreme outlier, whereas here it seems to have become some kind of norm and seems to be contributing to the brain damaged mentality of our community. The current iteration of /list does not embody the spirit or mechanics of old school player-made lists.