Progression?

darnzen · #1 11-10-2009, 12:24 AM

The problem is "end game" (relative to whatever expansion is active) is very tough and becomes trivial when you are exposed to the new items / levels in the next expansion. So "unlocking" simply by having one guild say kill Naggy / Vox / Cazic, would trivialize it for everyone else. I think it would be best to have the first kill of all the main raid targets start the clock for the expansion. So after they're all dead, Kunark is launched in 3-6 months. Something like that. Otherwise, everyone will wait until they're lvl 60 and geared up in Kunark gear to attempt PoF again after the first time. I mean, only a crazy person would go there without clerics with epics right?

Pyrocat · #2 11-10-2009, 05:34 AM

a timer probably makes sense, but people are still going to try and down old world raid bosses.

Morfnblorsh · #3 11-10-2009, 11:10 AM

I don't care what the system for unlocking the new content is, as long as we don't end up with a singular gigantic raiding guild having everything permanently camped and controlled at all times.

I'm not saying that this is what is happening right now, I'm only saying that I don't want that to be the case in the future. I want to see some healthy competition. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

stormlord · #4 11-10-2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darnzen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem is "end game" (relative to whatever expansion is active) is very tough and becomes trivial when you are exposed to the new items / levels in the next expansion. So "unlocking" simply by having one guild say kill Naggy / Vox / Cazic, would trivialize it for everyone else. I think it would be best to have the first kill of all the main raid targets start the clock for the expansion. So after they're all dead, Kunark is launched in 3-6 months. Something like that. Otherwise, everyone will wait until they're lvl 60 and geared up in Kunark gear to attempt PoF again after the first time. I mean, only a crazy person would go there without clerics with epics right?

Bottom line, close the doors of the gas station and lockupt the cement rollers and put away the construction hats until MOST people have done it. A 3-6 month absolute buffer is not good enough. We'd need a vote or a script or some way of knowing who has and hasn't been a part of the biggest raids pre-kunark. Without being able to know and being able to get the opinions of the public at large, we're simply moving forward for the sake of moving forward - and this often happens at the expense of the less fortunate.

And expecting all of this to happen on the same timescales as it did in EQ is absurd. As I've already touched on, the population numbers on this server are dwarfed, DWARFED, by those seen in EQ. 1 year, are you kidding? We're noewhere near saturation. People, like raiders and those with lots of time might get saturated and tired and go on breaks and even extended vacations, and scream all the time about wanting kunark/velious, but overall, saturation is a distant reality until most people are at this point.

If you cater to the people who play a lot and raid, and then open kunark/velious to satisfy them, you're forcing the mechanics of mudflation on the entire population!!! That should not happen without MINIMALLY a popular vote.

In summary, some people play too much. You shouldn't let their play-style rule over all others. And this is not SOE. This is not for profit. We're a community that feed this server with donations. This means we VOTE. We don't force progress down the throats of people without an open vote to determine whether that's what people really want. This is not a company. This is people.

entilza · #5 11-10-2009, 12:16 PM

I wouldn't worry too much it seems the devs are on top of it, it's called project 1999 afterall, I'm sure most who joined did not expect to be killing seb anytime soon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Morfnblorsh · #6 11-10-2009, 12:16 PM

Just one thing I need to point out.

The population is tiny compared to what live used to be, and even what it is now. This is true. But prior knowledge is a powerful tool as well and it can supplant the lack of extreme numbers once required. Nagafen was killed by SEVENTEEN PEOPLE. Do you remember how many it used to take?

They were able to accomplish this because they knew how he behaves, read up on him, have possibly done it before, and planned out a really good strategy based on all that information. Also manastones. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

stormlord · #7 11-10-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morfnblorsh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just one thing I need to point out.

The population is tiny compared to what live used to be, and even what it is now. This is true. But prior knowledge is a powerful tool as well and it can supplant the lack of extreme numbers once required. Nagafen was killed by SEVENTEEN PEOPLE. Do you remember how many it used to take?

They were able to accomplish this because they knew how he behaves, read up on him, have possibly done it before, and planned out a really good strategy based on all that information. Also manastones. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I killed Fippy Darkpaw. Tiime to launch Kunark. Just because some people are experts and have seen it all, does not mean everyone else has too. There're a lot of people that never got the chance to experience classic eq, pre-kunark. Are you going to let the veterans dictate the pace of progression and shove it down the throats of those new to this content, whom simply want to appreciate it?

I have news for you. I've played EQ off and on for 10 years. I played for a few months in 1999. I never got the chance to see what it was like after level 15 in pre-kunark. When I got back in 2001/02, I pretty much left the pre-kunark content for velious and to this day I wonder what it would have been like to experience it all before being shoved into later expansions.

Takshaka · #8 11-10-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morfnblorsh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just one thing I need to point out.

The population is tiny compared to what live used to be, and even what it is now. This is true. But prior knowledge is a powerful tool as well and it can supplant the lack of extreme numbers once required. Nagafen was killed by SEVENTEEN PEOPLE. Do you remember how many it used to take?

They were able to accomplish this because they knew how he behaves, read up on him, have possibly done it before, and planned out a really good strategy based on all that information. Also manastones. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Although this is true, I would also point out that many of the players on here have far less time than they used to. Sure the really hardcore players are going to be able to devote nearly as much time as they did back in the day, but I know that I myself have about 1/10th as much time to play as I did 10 years ago. Sure I am able to accomplish more in less time as this isnt my first time going through everything. However, I still don't think that justifies opening up Kunark in any kind of near future. It has been only a month right?

thrawnseg · #9 11-10-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morfnblorsh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just one thing I need to point out.

The population is tiny compared to what live used to be, and even what it is now. This is true. But prior knowledge is a powerful tool as well and it can supplant the lack of extreme numbers once required. Nagafen was killed by SEVENTEEN PEOPLE. Do you remember how many it used to take?

They were able to accomplish this because they knew how he behaves, read up on him, have possibly done it before, and planned out a really good strategy based on all that information. Also manastones. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm pretty sure they kill Nagafen due to the overpower of mages and manastones. I don't even think they had a bard for resists... so that means Nagafen isn't like live or the classes they took are overpowered.

Pyrocat · #10 11-10-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thrawnseg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm pretty sure they kill Nagafen due to the overpower of mages and manastones. I don't even think they had a bard for resists... so that means Nagafen isn't like live or the classes they took are overpowered.

I enjoy baseless conjecturing as much as the next guy, but try and have at least SOME information to go off of before shitting on a whole group of dedicated players accomplishments.

There was maaaaybe 1 or 2 mages on the raid, and manastones were primarily used to help lower the time required to buff everyone (which still took forever). The Naggy kill was legit and well-done. Nagafen is as close as possible to live, completely MR and FR and still extremely difficult, but we had been collecting FR/MR gear since we started leveling, and it's not like the fight requires a brand new strategy.