2020 Post Election MEGAthread

[imperiouskitten]

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I never said how the police handled the situation was ok, it wasn't even if it's some sort of training in some book.
The autopsy report did state he had lethal levels of Fentanyl in his system.

Stop doing drugs, period.
Get your head and facts straight.

The actual fact is you need to screw your head on and understand that blood levels don't prove anything. If he was an active addict, he may have been on a maintenance dose of fentanyl. Those LDs are based on drug-naivety. If you were on the dose of opiates I'm on now, you'd be toast. But it's not a lethal dose clearly.

All I am talking about is the police handling, which we agree was not okay. So what is all this rage coming at me? I think it's animus.

[Baler]

This message is hidden because imperiouskitten is on your ignore list.
sorry BigJ, not this time.

[magnetaress]

@nooneinspecific *ohh my sweet summer children*

[imperiouskitten]

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This message is hidden because imperiouskitten is on your ignore list.
sorry BigJ, not this time.

what a psycho, wow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[douglas1999]

How about this: Give the police *more* funding so that they can hire social workers. Social workers are already a thing, they are dispatched to situations that call for their expertise. What people have been proposing, which is completely idiotic, is that social workers be dispatched to situations where there is an imminent lethal threat. Cops already perform the role of social worker in many situations, for example when they talk jumpers off the ledges of buildings all the time.

Suggesting that a social worker should be called in when somebody like george floyd, who had an extensive violent criminal history (he robbed a pregnant woman at gunpoint, among other things) and had been in prison fourteen times, which the cops *are aware of* as soon as they ID him and look up his priors, is insane. Or somebody like jacob blake, or that dude waving a knife around, or literally any of the other people that have inspired rioting this year. This is what armed police are for.. It's super easy to criticize them after the fact when it wasn't you whose life was in danger.

[Baler]

The 2020 riots were all based on lies.

[imperiouskitten]

George Floyd was not waving a knife around. If you pretend to have any respect for the principles of our justice system, his priors should be irrelevant. That said I will acknowledge the intimidation factor in there being a large black violent felon freaking out who you are charged with controlling. I am even willing to admit that his priors and size are "mitigating factors". But they are *NOT* justification.

I just think there should probably be a social worker or some sort of trained person present somewhere in a crew of 6 or 8 police officers, who engages with the guy conversationally in a manner other than "YOU WILL GET IN NOW" when he starts openly calling out a mental health freakout re: going away to jail. I agree that we should fund that ^^

Yes the 2020 riots were bad, hope u dont think i liekd them granpa. Your emotional response tells the whole tale. I wish you could have a civil convo with me!

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by douglas1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How about this: Give the police *more* funding so that they can hire social workers. Social workers are already a thing, they are dispatched to situations that call for their expertise. What people have been proposing, which is completely idiotic, is that social workers be dispatched to situations where there is an imminent lethal threat. Cops already perform the role of social worker in many situations, for example when they talk jumpers off the ledges of buildings all the time.

Suggesting that a social worker should be called in when somebody like george floyd, who had an extensive violent criminal history (he robbed a pregnant woman at gunpoint, among other things) and had been in prison fourteen times, which the cops *are aware of* as soon as they ID him and look up his priors, is insane. Or somebody like jacob blake, or that dude waving a knife around, or literally any of the other people that have inspired rioting this year. This is what armed police are for.. It's super easy to criticize them after the fact when it wasn't you whose life was in danger.

1. youd be suprised to find out that defunding the police means refunding, but optics are hard because this is a day and age of all or nothing headline idiology.

2. no wrong about floyd, he is not violent, the video clearly shows he is in a state of panic, a social worker would have had him sit his ass down in the back of that police car in less time than it took to strangle him to death.

3. Why do we act like crisis negotiation is some how non existant to people who are appolgists for bad police work, libertarians agree, we need to defund things like the war on drugs and the sale of military equipment to the police.

If any of you out there think that there are no such thing as lawman that become lawman because they wanted to be a legal gunman then you need to stop pretending you're on the cowboys side, because you aint no cowboy at all.

[douglas1999]

Originally Posted by imperiouskitten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

George Floyd was not waving a knife around. If you pretend to have any respect for the principles of our justice system, his priors should be irrelevant. That said I will acknowledge the intimidation factor in there being a large black violent felon freaking out. I just think there should probably be a social worker or some sort of trained person present somewhere in a crew of 6 or 8 police officers, who engages with the guy conversationally in a manner other than "YOU WILL GET IN NOW" when he starts openly calling out a mental health freakout. I agree that we should fund that ^^

Yes the 2020 riots were bad, hope u dont think i liekd them granpa. I wish you could have a civil convo with me!

If you watch the entire 20+ minute long body cam footage, the cops *were* being incredibly polite and civil, just doing their jobs, and asking him simple questions. They essentially were acting as social workers at that time. They didn't start yelling YOU WILL GET IN NOW until it was the last resort. Same with that dude who got shot after falling asleep in the wendy's drive thru. You only got to see the 7 seconds where they shot him. There were 20 minutes prior to that where they were super chill, just asking him what was up, and eventually determined he was too drunk to drive. They attempted to calmly place him in handcuffs and he freaked out and tried to steal their tazer and use it against them. Nobody gives a shit about these details, they just see the 7 second clip where he gets shot and respond emotionally. That guy, also, is responsible for his own death and his own actions. Not the cop. If they had just let him go, he easily could have ended up hurting innocent people who were not involved in the situation. Being a cop is probably really hard, I'd imagine, and the non stop dogpiling on them when they simply do their jobs is disturbing.

I understand he wasn't waving a knife around, but given that he has a violent criminal history, a social worker is not who you need. You need armed police. George floyd died because of the choices he made in his life, the demonization of the cops is completely out of proportion to what they actually did. The knee on the neck was over the top, I can agree with that. The rest of it was completely standard procedure and people are treating them as if they are hitler youth.

[imperiouskitten]

Originally Posted by douglas1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you watch the entire 20+ minute long body cam footage, the cops *were* being incredibly polite and civil, just doing their jobs, and asking him simple questions. They essentially were acting as social works at that time. They didn't start yelling YOU WILL GET IN NOW until it was the last resort.

I understand he wasn't waving a knife around, but given that he has a violent criminal history, a social worker is not who you need. You need armed police. George floyd died because of the choices he made in his life, the demonization of the cops is completely out of proportion to what they actually did. The knee on the neck was over the top, I can agree with that. The rest of it was completely standard procedure and people are treating them as if they are hitler youth.

Right before "the last resort" could have been a man, even just a cop who attended a seminar, saying "OK George, I know this is heavy shit, listen I will turn on the lights in the back of the car, and let's sit here for 2 minutes in silence before you get in, but we have to take you in and you have to relax or you will get hurt." A brief period for neurotransmitters to reduce in everyone's head. 2 min. And if he disrespects that chance given to him or laughs openly or can't comply beyond that and there's no clear answer, so be it. (Or whatever, just an example protocol.)

At a certain point, force gets necessary and accidents may happen I agree. If a person starts fumbling in a cop's belt for their weapon, it's up to the cop's kindness and martial valor to whip them and let them live if they like. That's fine. But I watched the video and I watched the cops (and you) decide that "the last resort" is called for as soon as their patience is tested too far. Fact is, they could have sat there 30 more minutes. There was no "last resort" moment.