[Serious] Lets talk Top raiding guilds and their behavior

[Psyborg]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What if we decided to rotate on our own? They gonna force people to fight over shit?

No but they won’t enforce a rotation which means any guild that forms, dissolves, or simply chooses to break the agreement can do so at any time. For this reason and for the sake of competition (make fun of me all you want), AG and Freedom have independently come to the conclusion that we do not want to be part of any sweeping rotation. Tunare, Ring War, Fear Golems, maybe ST golems is about as far as we want to take it. Riot is the guild pushing hardest for a full rotation, much to my surprise. They believe it’s in the best interest of the server and we believe it will harm it. Gotta find a way to keep it competitive without burdening GMs with petitions. It’s the only way forward.

[Croco]

Originally Posted by Psyborg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No but they won’t enforce a rotation which means any guild that forms, dissolves, or simply chooses to break the agreement can do so at any time. For this reason and for the sake of competition (make fun of me all you want), AG and Freedom have independently come to the conclusion that we do not want to be part of any sweeping rotation. Tunare, Ring War, Fear Golems, maybe ST golems is about as far as we want to take it. Riot is the guild pushing hardest for a full rotation, much to my surprise. They believe it’s in the best interest of the server and we believe it will harm it. Gotta find a way to keep it competitive without burdening GMs with petitions. It’s the only way forward.

Whether or not it helps or harms the server depends on who you want to cater to. Rotating is classic, so is not rotating. Do you want to cater to the people who get off on denying people pixels and will bend/break any rule they possibly can to the point where if you are in a high end raid guild you absolutely have to have at least one if not multiple people running OBS at all times to catch the misdeeds?

Or do you want to cater to the people who are in favor of something the vast majority of the server is in favor of? This game is over 20 years old. Virtually none of us are in our teens/20's anymore. We're mostly in our 30's-40's and older and we have lives, families, pets, and responsibilities. We don't care if guild X happens to get the same pixels as us. It doesn't devalue our accomplishments. The powers that be have fostered a server meta that has caused the troubles the raid scene is now experiencing.

At some point you have to ask yourself "Am I the problem?" and when it comes to how the server is run I believe that's a resounding yes. I applaud Menden, Galach, and Medris for stepping up and finally doing something about it.

[Psyborg]

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Whether or not it helps or harms the server depends on who you want to cater to. Rotating is classic, so is not rotating. Do you want to cater to the people who get off on denying people pixels and will bend/break any rule they possibly can to the point where if you are in a high end raid guild you absolutely have to have at least one if not multiple people running OBS at all times to catch the misdeeds?

Or do you want to cater to the people who are in favor of something the vast majority of the server is in favor of? This game is over 20 years old. Virtually none of us are in our teens/20's anymore. We're mostly in our 30's-40's and older and we have lives, families, pets, and responsibilities. We don't care if guild X happens to get the same pixels as us. It doesn't devalue our accomplishments. The powers that be have fostered a server meta that has caused the troubles the raid scene is now experiencing.

At some point you have to ask yourself "Am I the problem?" and when it comes to how the server is run I believe that's a resounding yes. I applaud Menden, Galach, and Medris for stepping up and finally doing something about it.

I can appreciate that many would like rotations. I used to be in the same boat until I got a taste of competing and the bore that was instanced raiding in Classic WoW. I truly do have a all the empathy in the world for people who would like full rotations, which is why my compromise is a mix. I can only speak for myself and guild mates who share my view. Rotating is not fun and would make me want to stop playing. I enjoy competing against other guilds for kills with high stakes. I’m sure most of the server wouldn’t enjoy it but they have clearly found other ways to remain happy on the server. I believe it’s possible to compete without burdening the GMs and I have every intention of fighting for a solution that does that. I’d be happy to outline what I think I a logical approach.

[Croco]

Originally Posted by Psyborg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can appreciate that many would like rotations. I used to be in the same boat until I got a taste of competing and the bore that was instanced raiding in Classic WoW. I truly do have a all the empathy in the world for people who would like full rotations, which is why my compromise is a mix. I can only speak for myself and guild mates who share my view. Rotating is not fun and would make me want to stop playing. I enjoy competing against other guilds for kills with high stakes. I’m sure most of the server wouldn’t enjoy it but they have clearly found other ways to remain happy on the server. I believe it’s possible to compete without burdening the GMs and I have every intention of fighting for a solution that does that. I’d be happy to outline what I think I a logical approach.

Having the 20-50 most hardcore "competition'ists" leave the server would be a huge net positive for everyone else.

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Having the 20-50 most hardcore "competition'ists" leave the server would be a huge net positive for everyone else.

Here's the thing, they wouldn't even fucking leave, they just say that now throwing a tantrum. Call their bluff, force a rotation (this isn't going to happen per staff though) and see what they do. They'll keep logging in for their pixels and be a general pain in the ass in some other way. A few might leave, not all.

[Psyborg]

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Having the 20-50 most hardcore "competition'ists" leave the server would be a huge net positive for everyone else.

I don’t personally believe that to be true. I appreciate your view on it though.

[hewopepweow]

Originally Posted by Psyborg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can only speak for myself and guild mates who share my view. Rotating is not fun and would make me want to stop playing.

I'm reading this as "P99 raiding is so boring to me at this point the only way I get invested is by injecting tons of drama into it". And now were playing OBS/Petitionquest as people try to skirt every rule they can to grab more pixels.

It sounds more and more like a vocal minority who think that their ability to enjoy the end game a very specific way thinks that their personal experience is the most important thing, and everyone else needs to cater to it as such.

[Issar]

Originally Posted by hewopepweow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm reading this as "P99 raiding is so boring to me at this point the only way I get invested is by injecting tons of drama into it".

I have zero investment in any of this, but that's exactly how I read comment as well. Someone had the earlier suggestion of having a rotated server and a "competitive" server. I'm not sure the designations made the most sense, but the concept seems like a reasonable solution at this point, right?

[Grapeape]

Originally Posted by hewopepweow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

. And now were playing OBS/Petitionquest as people try to skirt every rule they can to grab more pixels.

I think this is where the disconnect with reality is for so many people on the current situation. The petitions are being fired off left and right from both (all 3?) sides by people trying to hold everyone to the strictest letter of the rules, i.e. giving speeding tickets for exceeding the posted limit by 1 MPH, not as a result of a devious, purposeful effort to break rules.