AG, Riot, Freedom raid suspended indefinitely

[nyclin]

detoxx comes back to p99 and reforms forsaken v69.420 and the raid scene almost immediately turns toxic after being relatively civil for nearly a year, wow never saw that one coming just absolutely floored by this development

[kjs86z]

Originally Posted by nyclin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

detoxx comes back to p99 and reforms forsaken v69.420 and the raid scene almost immediately turns toxic after being relatively civil for nearly a year, wow never saw that one coming just absolutely floored by this development

/thread

[Jorgam]

Originally Posted by nyclin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

detoxx comes back to p99 and reforms forsaken v69.420 and the raid scene almost immediately turns toxic after being relatively civil for nearly a year, wow never saw that one coming just absolutely floored by this development

No doubt that Detoxx is not liked by many in the high end raid scene, however, IMO it is more so that with the formation of Riot and the mass zerg / overwhelming machine they made, everyone else was forced to do crazy shit in tandem with them in order to stay relevant, thus the FRAG alliance.

It was an escalation of an arms race that brings us here today. Riot being allowed to go almost full TMO for so long made people insane. They needed some in game anti-trust litigation to break them and their monopoly up and so here we are.

[Nuggie]

Originally Posted by Jorgam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No doubt that Detoxx is not liked by many in the high end raid scene, however, IMO it is more so that with the formation of Riot and the mass zerg / overwhelming machine they made, everyone else was forced to do crazy shit in tandem with them in order to stay relevant, thus the FRAG alliance.

It was an escalation of an arms race that brings us here today. Riot being allowed to go almost full TMO for so long made people insane. They needed some in game anti-trust litigation to break them and their monopoly up and so here we are.

Eh, there would be no Riot without AM monopolizing raid content before that.

[Croco]

Originally Posted by Nuggie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Eh, there would be no Riot without AM monopolizing raid content before that.

Truth.

[saftbudet]

Originally Posted by nyclin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

detoxx comes back to p99 and reforms forsaken v69.420 and the raid scene almost immediately turns toxic after being relatively civil for nearly a year, wow never saw that one coming just absolutely floored by this development

True

[Zoggren]

Originally Posted by nyclin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

detoxx comes back to p99 and reforms forsaken v69.420 and the raid scene almost immediately turns toxic after being relatively civil for nearly a year, wow never saw that one coming just absolutely floored by this development

The raid scene was civil for a year because one guild dominated all high end content. AG barely saw inner ring NToV or Vulak, and were beat time and again for city leaders in a system designed to favor those with the most experience with the current raid rule set. Freedom forms out of AG and Riot and (Aftermath) and suddenly the guild who had it nearly on lock must fight again for spawns. No guild with power like that is going to give it up easily, and the same could be said of Aftermath when Riot surpassed them. Riot decided to rules lawyer and Aftermath had their own response to suddenly being challenged. I think in the end it made it toxic, whether through 20 page petitions or cut throat play. Both guilds regularly fielded 125 plus during their height for mobs. The idea that either of them were zergs would be false, as each had knowledgeable playmakers that knew how to be successful inside a byzantine rule set that other guilds often didn't fully understand. I am sure Paradigm Shift and Core had a more difficult time under Aftermath than AG did under Riot, but in the end losing so many mobs to one guild brings the same feeling of animosity. No system will work here with one guild dominating again that will not lead to the creation of a toxic environment. Any solution that will work will have to result in Riot Freedom and AG all losing mobs, and opening up more raid content to Kittens, TSS and DB, plus any other alliances. Ideas of making a more punitive system are moot, we've already tried that. The idea that the GM's can be perfect arbitrators has already proven to be a false one, and they just don't want to anymore. You can have certain mobs on rotation while still having competition on other mobs. A system that can entice guilds to work together instead of creating a hyper partisan system, where people hate entire guilds because they must destroy them during cycle days. It needs to be a radical rethinking, for the better of the server. We all live here in the end. We're all p99'ers. The GM's are letting us decide which way to go and more than just the top 3 guilds should have a say in it.

[Nuggie]

Good post comrade.

[Viscere]

Originally Posted by Zoggren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The raid scene was civil for a year because one guild dominated all high end content. AG barely saw inner ring NToV or Vulak, and were beat time and again for city leaders in a system designed to favor those with the most experience with the current raid rule set. Freedom forms out of AG and Riot and (Aftermath) and suddenly the guild who had it nearly on lock must fight again for spawns. No guild with power like that is going to give it up easily, and the same could be said of Aftermath when Riot surpassed them. Riot decided to rules lawyer and Aftermath had their own response to suddenly being challenged. I think in the end it made it toxic, whether through 20 page petitions or cut throat play. Both guilds regularly fielded 125 plus during their height for mobs. The idea that either of them were zergs would be false, as each had knowledgeable playmakers that knew how to be successful inside a byzantine rule set that other guilds often didn't fully understand. I am sure Paradigm Shift and Core had a more difficult time under Aftermath than AG did under Riot, but in the end losing so many mobs to one guild brings the same feeling of animosity. No system will work here with one guild dominating again that will not lead to the creation of a toxic environment. Any solution that will work will have to result in Riot Freedom and AG all losing mobs, and opening up more raid content to Kittens, TSS and DB, plus any other alliances. Ideas of making a more punitive system are moot, we've already tried that. The idea that the GM's can be perfect arbitrators has already proven to be a false one, and they just don't want to anymore. You can have certain mobs on rotation while still having competition on other mobs. A system that can entice guilds to work together instead of creating a hyper partisan system, where people hate entire guilds because they must destroy them during cycle days. It needs to be a radical rethinking, for the better of the server. We all live here in the end. We're all p99'ers. The GM's are letting us decide which way to go and more than just the top 3 guilds should have a say in it.

Qft

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by Zoggren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The raid scene was civil for a year because one guild dominated all high end content. AG barely saw inner ring NToV or Vulak, and were beat time and again for city leaders in a system designed to favor those with the most experience with the current raid rule set.

Freedom forms out of AG and Riot and (Aftermath) and suddenly the guild who had it nearly on lock must fight again for spawns. No guild with power like that is going to give it up easily, and the same could be said of Aftermath when Riot surpassed them.

Riot decided to rules lawyer and Aftermath had their own response to suddenly being challenged. I think in the end it made it toxic, whether through 20 page petitions or cut throat play. Both guilds regularly fielded 125 plus during their height for mobs. The idea that either of them were zergs would be false, as each had knowledgeable playmakers that knew how to be successful inside a byzantine rule set that other guilds often didn't fully understand. I am sure Paradigm Shift and Core had a more difficult time under Aftermath than AG did under Riot, but in the end losing so many mobs to one guild brings the same feeling of animosity.

No system will work here with one guild dominating again that will not lead to the creation of a toxic environment. Any solution that will work will have to result in Riot Freedom and AG all losing mobs, and opening up more raid content to Kittens, TSS and DB, plus any other alliances.

Ideas of making a more punitive system are moot, we've already tried that. The idea that the GM's can be perfect arbitrators has already proven to be a false one, and they just don't want to anymore. You can have certain mobs on rotation while still having competition on other mobs. A system that can entice guilds to work together instead of creating a hyper partisan system, where people hate entire guilds because they must destroy them during cycle days.

It needs to be a radical rethinking, for the better of the server. We all live here in the end. We're all p99'ers. The GM's are letting us decide which way to go and more than just the top 3 guilds should have a say in it.

One more time, with enter key use, because its a good post.