List System Proposed Changes

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Cen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is too exploitable. .

How?

[Cen]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How?

Because of the reason why they created the system in the first place, a scheduled mass join could be formed for a guild to have their own list, or DKP, or whatever system they want, to trump the odds by massing 30 people on the list in a single moment, cranking up the drop to them at the scheduled time to some upper 90s percentile. You can nearly gaurentee stealing a list item with ease at any time you choose and its even worse because you don't need to join a group at all to do so.

Your idea works perfectly if you make it randomly drop to, at most, the size of a typical group. Anything more, and its way, way easy to rig it.

[this user was banned]

Originally Posted by Cen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because of the reason why they created the system in the first place, a scheduled mass join could be formed for a guild to have their own list, or DKP, or whatever system they want, to trump the odds by massing 30 people on the list in a single moment, cranking up the drop to them at the scheduled time to some upper 90s percentile. You can nearly gaurentee stealing a list item with ease at any time you choose and its even worse because you don't need to join a group at all to do so.

Your idea works perfectly if you make it randomly drop to, at most, the size of a typical group. Anything more, and its way, way easy to rig it.

There's no need for random drops. Just join the list and go level until it's your turn. There's already a week lockout on lists after getting your drop and some have reported even longer lockouts recently but that might be a bug.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Cen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because of the reason why they created the system in the first place, a scheduled mass join could be formed for a guild to have their own list, or DKP, or whatever system they want, to trump the odds by massing 30 people on the list in a single moment, cranking up the drop to them at the scheduled time to some upper 90s percentile. You can nearly gaurentee stealing a list item with ease at any time you choose and its even worse because you don't need to join a group at all to do so.

Your idea works perfectly if you make it randomly drop to, at most, the size of a typical group. Anything more, and its way, way easy to rig it.

You don;t understand. The stone is still going to drop a set (abysmal) rate no matter how many people log on. By your logic the manastone camp should have 60 guildies all on it right now.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don;t understand. The stone is still going to drop a set (abysmal) rate no matter how many people log on. By your logic the manastone camp should have 60 guildies all on it right now.

There’s a slight difference in bringing 60 guildies to camp manastone on a list that moves in linear order and bringing 60 guildies to make sure the odds are in your favor when a manastone drops if everyone in the list could potentially win it.

Personally, I think after X minutes of spawning, the mob should auto-aggro the #1 person every server tick regardless if FD, invis, or hidden. If you doubt your ability to solo the mob, come back when you're level 50.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There’s a slight difference in bringing 60 guildies to camp manastone on a list that moves in linear order and bringing 60 guildies to make sure the odds are in your favor when a manastone drops if everyone in the list could potentially win it.

Personally, I think after X minutes of spawning, the mob should auto-aggro the #1 person every server tick regardless if FD, invis, or hidden. If you doubt your ability to solo the mob, come back when you're level 50.

Agreed. Making it randomly given to someone on the list regardless of position will just make it ripe for guild abuse. If the list is 200 people long, for example, and it includes 100+ players from some guild who has just packed their members onto the list, you are essentially moving yourself back towards the scenario the list was designed to prevent (i.e. a guild trying to ensure Manastones only go to its members).

Sure, it wouldn't be 100% guaranteed to go to members of that guild, but just packing your members onto the list ensures high odds that someone from your guild will be getting the drop.

[this user was banned]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agreed. Making it randomly given to someone on the list regardless of position will just make it ripe for guild abuse. If the list is 200 people long, for example, and it includes 100+ players from some guild who has just packed their members onto the list, you are essentially moving yourself back towards the scenario the list was designed to prevent (i.e. a guild trying to ensure Manastones only go to its members).

Sure, it wouldn't be 100% guaranteed to go to members of that guild, but just packing your members onto the list ensures high odds that someone from your guild will be getting the drop.

So the only thing stopping them from doing this now is the fact that they need to be in zone and have to do AFK checks?

Would limiting drops to 1 per character or just increasing the lockout time be any help?

[DMN]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agreed. Making it randomly given to someone on the list regardless of position will just make it ripe for guild abuse. If the list is 200 people long, for example, and it includes 100+ players from some guild who has just packed their members onto the list, you are essentially moving yourself back towards the scenario the list was designed to prevent (i.e. a guild trying to ensure Manastones only go to its members).

Sure, it wouldn't be 100% guaranteed to go to members of that guild, but just packing your members onto the list ensures high odds that someone from your guild will be getting the drop.

Ya right manastone could not drop for 30 hours straight so you are spending 30x100 for a chance at a manastone and still possible someone else is there to win the roll not in guilds. Even someone who just showed up for the last spawn it dropped on.

That is some rank ass logic. No guild would waste all their members collective time like that.

the lists will have more "random joes" on it but guilds aren't going to pack the list. This is only because right now random joe has 0.0000% of getting a stone. that's the only thing that will change with my idea.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ya right manastone could not drop for 30 hours straight so you are spending 30x100 for a chance at a manastone and still possible someone else is there to win the roll not in guilds. Even someone who just showed up for the last spawn it dropped on.

That is some rank ass logic. No guild would waste all their members collective time like that.

the lists will have more "random joes" on it but guilds aren't going to pack the list. This is only because right now random joe has 0.0000% of getting a stone. that's the only thing that will change with my idea.

I think you greatly underestimate the neck beard guild obsession with monopolization

[Dreenk317]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don;t understand. The stone is still going to drop a set (abysmal) rate no matter how many people log on. By your logic the manastone camp should have 60 guildies all on it right now.

And this isnt how it works. He was explaining that if the drop was awarded at random to anyone on the list. A guild could weight it in there favor by increasing their numbers in the random pool. Thereby making it not so random. At the current state, ONLY the person in the number 1 spot can loot, in fact, I'm pretty sure they have to, and if they dont the item rots, as in, they can not have a ffriend or alt loot the item. If a guild wants to get there members on the list, that's fine, if those members decide that the manastone or rubi BP is then a dkp item amongst the guild, that's there choice. But it would be very hard for them to actually monopolize the spawn with the current list system as all members would have to pass afk checks or get dropped from the list. If it was random reward to anyone on the list, a guild could easily, easily bring 30 people to the camp for 3-4 hours and have a very high chance of getting all manastones that drop in that 3-4 hour period simply be having a lot of people sitting there doing nothing. No thanks....