list system flaw

[PabloEdvardo]

Originally Posted by Grakken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am all for this. Give list 1 an hour to form a group to kill it. Seems like we agree.

Not exactly -- the people grouped to kill it are the people on the /list

If you join /list and think just because you can solo it, you don't have to participate in helping people above you kill it, you're a shit lord.

There's plenty of excuses you can make, but it's still shit lord behavior.

People think the /list is a "sign up, line up, come get your soloable item"

but it was supposed to be a way to enforce keeping order among people camping it

The fact that it's easy to abuse once you can FD or solo it, is a result of player selfishness. Every name I've seen sit afk and bitch about "I can solo it so fuck you I'm not helping you get yours" goes on my permanent shit list.

[Grakken]

Originally Posted by PabloEdvardo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you join /list and think just because you can solo it, you don't have to participate in helping people above you kill it, you're a shit lord.

There's plenty of excuses you can make, but it's still shit lord behavior.

Pre List
RULEs: You don't have to help people farm named mobs while you wait for a camp.
Community: You don't have to help people farm named mobs while you wait for a camp.

Post List
Rules: You don't have to help people farm named mobs while you wait for a camp.
Community: If you don't spend 40 hours farming welfare pixels to people who can't get a group to farm the named, you're a garbage human being and everyone hates you.

Me: Surprised pikachu face.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Originally Posted by PabloEdvardo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People think the /list is a "sign up, line up, come get your soloable item"

but it was supposed to be a way to enforce keeping order among people camping it

Look at this shithead.

How do you think camps work in EQ? Are you even familiar with this game? The list was created to minimize CSR work surrounding these shitshow legacy item camps.

Period.

The list was not created to force people to group together to camp rare items for players who normally wouldn't be able to hold the camp.

The list system is broken because Rogean surprisingly did not anticipate the depths that the neckbeards of P99 are willing to sink to.

If people show up to /list for an item and find a rogue or whatever just sitting there with all the mobs up then the rogue should be removed from the list. There is no way in hell that it makes any sense for the newcomers to have to farm the item for the rogue just because he was there first.

If the list was not in place and this same scenario took place, the rogue would lose his "camp" because he wasn't actually camping anything. The list needs to be tweaked for sure.

Now, if I showed up to a /list camp and there was some stranger just sitting there waiting for me to kill the PH for them because they can't do it themself? I would just leave or log out. I wouldn't care enough to try to wait them out but I certainly wouldn't camp the item for them. Here's another thing too: I would never even consider showing up to a /list camp if I was not capable of soloing it. It would never cross my mind to just go to a /list camp and wait for people to show up and clear it for me. I think that is much more despicable behavior than the people who refuse to help them to keep the list moving.

There is a huge difference from live back in classic and P99 now. The difference is that there is a massive amount of entitlement NOW. Funny since I would think that people would have been more entitled back when they were paying a monthly subscription.

The whining will continue no matter what happens but I would like to see some fair changes made to the list system to cut down on the amount of leeches who think they can just show up and /AFK their way to a legacy item.

[cobaltblack]

looking forward to the PVP enabled classic timeline server PINK99

All these problems won't exist on pink99.

[lituviel]

Originally Posted by ZiggyTheMuss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look at this shithead.

......

If people show up to /list for an item and find a rogue or whatever just sitting there with all the mobs up then the rogue should be removed from the list. There is no way in hell that it makes any sense for the newcomers to have to farm the item for the rogue just because he was there first.

If the list was not in place and this same scenario took place, the rogue would lose his "camp" because he wasn't actually camping anything. The list needs to be tweaked for sure.

Now, if I showed up to a /list camp and there was some stranger just sitting there waiting for me to kill the PH for them because they can't do it themself? I would just leave or log out. I wouldn't care enough to try to wait them out but I certainly wouldn't camp the item for them.

Do what I say but not what I do.

Originally Posted by ZiggyTheMuss [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys are assholes for not helping him and keeping the line moving.

Or are you just insulting people for free there ?

[NeilYo]

Why is this thread still going for more pages? You’re all so delusional and toxic it’s unreal. If you aren’t willing to group with someone that got there before you, then it’s literally your own fault for wasting everyone’s time. someone will come along eventually and group up with list#1 and kill it together, the only person holding time hostage is the one not helping and thinking they had any real chance at the loot otherwise; because, in the end, none of you ever had chance at the loot and you’d have to save up absurd amounts of plat to try to entice the group that owns the monopoly on the item if you didn’t have this list system.

If you guys think waiting 24-40hrs for an item is bad you are so sadly oblivious to what you’d have to go through to get it otherwise.

I hope you all get well soon and stop flaming eachother over shit that none of you ever had a chance at to begin with.

[Grakken]

Originally Posted by Kirrund [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You've already made it pretty clear in other threads that your stance is anyone not you or in your guild is considered a stranger. Which is a bit ironic considering that someone being in a guild doesn't mean they'll help you if you ask for it, or that they aren't a total dick who doesn't care about you.

Fake news. Never said it. I'm not guilded. I agree guilds don't mean anything. Every guild has cliques that are always exclusive to their clique.

Originally Posted by Kirrund [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess the point is, if you act like everyone is a stranger, they always will be.

Who said I'm a sad player with no online friends? I've met many people and I can't logon for 5 minutes without getting an invite from someone.

Originally Posted by Kirrund [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you instead invest a little time and effort being social, talking to people, and treating others as you would also like to be treated, you will not only create a network of 'non-strangers' (also known as friends), but you will be promoting a better community with your behavior.

I have. Which is why I have perma groups, and spent my entire weekend camping an FBSS for one of these friends. I think a community of people who show up underleveled to a mob and expect others to farm a mob for 10 hours for them are entitled jerks. I don't care that the /list system allows it.

Originally Posted by Kirrund [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Selfishness in and of itself is not an inherently bad thing. A reasonable amount of selfishness is healthy and expected from a preservation standpoint. But pure selfishness and self interest is an extreme that's bad

I wholeheartedly agree. We just disagree what constitutes "Pure selfishness". I think the lv 35 class unable to contribute at EE is pure selfish. You don't. We disagree, that's okay.

Originally Posted by Kirrund [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the total unwillingness to spend a minimal amount of personal time and cost to greatly increased effect for someone else. I'll use your old example in another thread. Being unwilling to SoW a "total stranger" when you aren't busy,

Never said the bold part. I have had more than one person flame me (lots of the swears) because I wouldn't sow someone while I was tanking in HHK. I get spammed a lot for SoW. Its not the one person, its the constant supply of entitled lowbies with this same mentality. That's why so many Shaman and druids go /anon. It gets old fast.

Originally Posted by Kirrund [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if they politely ask you for it. You call entitlement, but it literally costs you a negligible amount of effort to what amounts to a much greater output for them.

That Jeff bezos guy should clearly have to give me 1 million dollars because diminishing marginal utility means group utility is maximized. Same with that cute girl, the sex only costs her 30 seconds (woo self burn) but makes my week. Clearly choice should go out the window.

Originally Posted by NeilYo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You being unwilling to SoW someone at negligible cost when asked nicely, and the person AFK at #1 on the list have way more in common than you think.

These have nothing in common. Unless you're talking about the guy asking for SoW and the afk list 1 feeling entitled to me doing the work for them.

I resent the guy who feels entitled to my SoW because he "asked nicely".
I resent the list 1 guy who uses the /list system forcing others to spend 10 hours farming him welfare pixels.

Originally Posted by NeilYo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you guys think waiting 24-40hrs for an item is bad you are so sadly oblivious to what you’d have to go through to get it otherwise.

I've said I'd take the /list system with current warts over no system.

Originally Posted by NeilYo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I hope you all get well soon and stop flaming eachother over shit that none of you ever had a chance at to begin with.

I got my Manastone. I leveled fast. I was in group when a manastone dropped and none of us was high enough lv to /list. Lower guk had NOBODY in it most of the time when I got there.

[Kirrund]

Originally Posted by Grakken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fake news. Never said it. I'm not guilded. I agree guilds don't mean anything. Every guild has cliques that are always exclusive to their clique.

Originally Posted by Grakken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its extremely different. One is a random stranger. Another is a guildmate. I'd spend an entire weekend camping an item for a friend. I won't SoW a stranger.

You did say it. https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...=342015&page=2

Never said the bold part. I have had more than one person flame me (lots of the swears) because I wouldn't sow someone while I was tanking in HHK. I get spammed a lot for SoW. Its not the one person, its the constant supply of entitled lowbies with this same mentality. That's why so many Shaman and druids go /anon. It gets old fast.

Whoever asked you to SoW while tanking is being rude. That's completely different than if you're standing around in the tunnel doing nothing. I am not trying to say that you should ALWAYS do it, because one person can only do so much. There is a thing called compassion fatigue. But the original point was that you said you won't do it. And you were pretty adamant about similar views in other threads, leading me to believe that it isn't just a one off and it's how you actually think.

That Jeff bezos guy should clearly have to give me 1 million dollars because diminishing marginal utility means group utility is maximized. Same with that cute girl, the sex only costs her 30 seconds (woo self burn) but makes my week. Clearly choice should go out the window.

Although I get it's a joke, sharing intimacy with someone is entirely different than what amounts to you walking up to me and asking me for 50 cents for the vending machine, which relatively speaking is nothing more than a soda to me. For you, that coke represents a lifetime free of struggle and the possibility of opportunity not just for yourself, but for many generations, provided you don't squander it by gulping it down immediately. Likewise, a king sitting on his throne may indeed have the choice not to redistribute a minuscule amount of his wealth in order to lessen the strife and detriment of countless others who likely contributed to his massive wealth to begin with. He has that choice. But it's a fact that choice also makes him a selfish asshole. He has to live with that.

In real life, discussions of money and relative wealth is obviously much more complicated and nuanced than either yours or my example, but surely you see the point at its most basic level?

[Grakken]

Originally Posted by Kirrund [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You did say it. https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...=342015&page=2

You're taking my words out of context. And even still with them out of context is not even close to what you claim I said.

He said /list is the same as a guild raid. I said one is a stranger, one is a guildmate. I never said anyone who is not a guildmate is a stranger. Let's say he used the example of me farming for my girlfriend is the same as /list. I'd responded no, one is a stranger one is my girlfriend. Would you think I consider anyone not my girlfriend a stranger?

Originally Posted by turbosilk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not really any different than killing a raid mob knowing someone with more points will get the drop you want if it drops. You can help kill the mob and advance whoever is in front of you or you can choose not to attend.

[PabloEdvardo]

Originally Posted by Grakken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think a community of people who show up underleveled to a mob and expect others to farm a mob for 10 hours for them are entitled jerks. I don't care that the /list system allows it.

If someone thinks the lvl requirements are too low, when it's proven that a group of that level can do it, they're just reinforcing the selfish-as-usual stance of "you should be able to solo it" which as others have pointed out many times, amounts really to "my time is more valuable than anyone else's".

Those saying that they aren't going to help others farm something for 20+ hours, simply don't realize waiting there for 20+ hours is exactly how the system works, and they're literally only ruining their reputation by doing anything other than help move the list along.

It's a small community. Someone can claim "rules" all they want. But "Play Nice" is a grey area that relies on interpretation... and just like "porn", people know toxic selfish behavior when they see it.

I guess it's good that many of the people doing the egregious stuff are FD / solo classes -- because they will erode away their ability to find groups if they persist with that type of behavior.