System rotation target ?

[Shiftin]

Originally Posted by Duie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Before you shoot this down, how about really have a conversation about it.As it stands now ,we have basicly 1 guild that gets everything and im sure they are ok w/ that but what does that do to build a comunity.. you know , the thing that made classic the best game ever .

Here's where the great divide exists in ideology. This is not what made classic great for me or a ton of other people. The people that disagree with you formed the guilds getting the bosses specifically because we disagree with this stance.

Yes, on Tunare we had a very community oriented feel. We pugged naggy and vox even into early Kunark. I led these raids for the better part of 6 months so I know they can be fun.

However, what drew me back to this server were all the awesome memories I have of racing for mobs in Kunark and Velious. Many near misses and victories are still vivid in my mind.

Aside from this, those old world bosses still drop stuff that's amazing until well into velious:
-BCG is a best in slot item for all int and wis casters + priests + bards who have a CoF or CoP.
-Naggy and Vox still drop dragon haste, gaunlets of fiery might, tobrins eyepatches, red and white dragon scales that are useful for what they make and for epics.
-Innoruuk drops encylopedia that makes necro pets absurdly powerful.
-CT drops a sweet robe that doesn't really have a replacement until you kill phara dar.

Do you see where I'm going with this? All of these mobs you want the top guilds to ignore drop things which are legitimate upgrades for our members, especially the new members we have to take in to compensate for the relatively high turnover on an EMU server. We are not killing them just to say we did it, we are killing them because we need the loot as well to get stronger and stay competitive.

[moklianne]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However, what drew me back to this server were all the awesome memories I have of racing for mobs in Kunark and Velious. Many near misses and victories are still vivid in my mind.

Ditto. Since I started in Luclin, we raced other guilds all the way through Luclin and PoP. The highs are so much higher when you finally organize to beat out that other guild that has been beating you the past few times. The game began to stagnate when instanced grouping/raiding was put in.

[Duie]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aside from this, those old world bosses still drop stuff that's amazing until well into velious:
-BCG is a best in slot item for all int and wis casters + priests + bards who have a CoF or CoP.
-Naggy and Vox still drop dragon haste, gaunlets of fiery might, tobrins eyepatches, red and white dragon scales that are useful for what they make and for epics.
-Innoruuk drops encylopedia that makes necro pets absurdly powerful.
-CT drops a sweet robe that doesn't really have a replacement until you kill phara dar.

Do you see where I'm going with this? All of these mobs you want the top guilds to ignore drop things which are legitimate upgrades for our members, especially the new members we have to take in to compensate for the relatively high turnover on an EMU server. We are not killing them just to say we did it, we are killing them because we need the loot as well to get stronger and stay competitive.

as you mentioned you will get upgrades as soon as vp goes into play. by tier one agreeing to this they will also get first crack at epic so the dragonscale point is mute as well as CT /Inny(which would be defaulted to you if the said guild couldnt kill them). You are also not seeing that tier 2 and 3 would be giving up what is considered top priority targets(IE curently all of kunark dragons and VS). Tiers would work and what I wrote down is a rough draft. Tier rules would have to be something everyone could live with and thus guild Leaders would have to sit down and come up with said rules.

Something else you are missing as well. In a tier system you would not be recruiting unequiped players. By the time a player gets bored or wants to join the top dogs , they are mostlikely going to have planer and dragon loot from the old world. Human nature dictates youll still get your recruits But more likely than not, you wont have to backtrackto get the new batch equiped

[tj218]

What about limiting the size of the guilds to say 40-50?

That would force guilds to work together (unless all guildies are on at the same time) and share the raid mobs while still keeping the "effort" and mobilization aspect in place.

[Shiftin]

Originally Posted by Duie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

as you mentioned you will get upgrades as soon as vp goes into play. by tier one agreeing to this they will also get first crack at epic so the dragonscale point is mute as well as CT /Inny(which would be defaulted to you if the said guild couldnt kill them). You are also not seeing that tier 2 and 3 would be giving up what is considered top priority targets(IE curently all of kunark dragons and VS). Tiers would work and what I wrote down is a rough draft. Tier rules would have to be something everyone could live with and thus guild Leaders would have to sit down and come up with said rules.

I want you to view this from the perspective of the people who already kill almost everything. You're telling us that agreeing to not get loot will ensure that guilds which can't currently compete with us will let us have first crack at things that are in more in demand at some later abstract date. Why would TR (or asc, or TMO or whatever) agree to not kill mobs that have things we need? The immediate trade off is that we dont' have to race guilds who can't necessarily kill all of the kunark targets anyway?

VP doesn't have upgrades for every slot, and gearing up an entire guild through VP would take forever when it eventually comes out.

Something else you are missing as well. In a tier system you would not be recruiting unequiped players. By the time a player gets bored or wants to join the top dogs , they are mostlikely going to have planer and dragon loot from the old world. Human nature dictates youll still get your recruits But more likely than not, you wont have to backtrackto get the new batch equiped

There are current, longstanding members of the "tier 1" guilds who have been around for more than 6 months raiding without a BCG, or CoF, or RBB, or Inny book etc. Loot does not fall from the sky and people who have been rewarded with dragon haste or uber items don't typically jump ship. Loot actually enters the world slower here than it did in classic because of how infrequently we have patches which add in repops, and then you have to spread it out over a top heavy population

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

About VP and velious: (this is something i'm stealing from a guildie who's on the fence about the issue that i didn't think about)

What about guardian bosses/mini bosses? Certain zones/encounters were meant to be cleared from start to finish in a chronological order. The velious raiding zones are a prime example. How would that work? All the bosses should spawn in order, otherwise you're defeating the purpose of the zone. You can't have vulak spawning before the others unless you plan to change the way the zone was meant to work. But with variance, right now that's exactly what would happen.

We can't keep this up forever. It needs to go sooner or later; why not now?

These are all legitimate concerns and points, i'd like to think. Not that a GM has to answer, but it would certainly be nice if they chimed in on this.

I understand your passion for this, but you're getting some things wrong. ToV North is the only velious raid zone meant to be killed "in order" to any degree (except maybe statue -> AoW). The Vulak ring event wasn't triggerable until every dragon in north was dead and we have rules for triggered spawns. Let's cross the ToV bridge when we get to it in 18 months.

Time equaled effort in classic as soon as they added long key quests. VP key can take 50-60 hours and VT key later took even longer. Certain classes' epics involve a crapton of waiting around.

Also, everyone loves to forget (or never did these raids during classic) but there was some variance in classic EQ. Kunark outdoor dragons didn't all spawn on server up. Vox/Nag had 8 or 12 hour variances. It's not like it was here, but you didn't show up at vox knowing she's spawn at 3:02 on the dot with a raid foce buffed and ready to go. Again, I led these raids and there was a few times we'd go kill naggy and vox wasn't up yet so we had to push her to the next night despite killing both of them back to back the previous week.

Originally Posted by tj218 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What about limiting the size of the guilds to say 40-50?

That would force guilds to work together (unless all guildies are on at the same time) and share the raid mobs while still keeping the "effort" and mobilization aspect in place.

This is the most insane thing in the entire thread. Force a hard cap on guilds so you have to split loot between them every time a mob spawns and you don't have enough on?

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The immediate trade off is that we dont' have to race guilds who can't necessarily kill all of the kunark targets anyway?

I agree with most everything else you said but....

c'mon seriously....

There's a huge difference between having 30-70 people a tweet/text away from sitting on a raid mob's nuts, and 'being able to kill kunark targets'.

The only real 'skill' encounter left out there is VP, and it'd be pretty hard to ignore the idea that the real 'skill' in VP is going to be locking Trak down hard enough to keep any other guild with a pulse and the ability to google out of the zone entirely. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Trystych]

I think you underestimate the difficulty of some of the kunark bosses Bubbles.

Especially since the latest patch, some of these fights are no joke.

[Shiftin]

Bubbles, 2 weeks ago when 2 other completely separate raids couldn't get trak below 85%, and last week 60 people from 2 guilds couldn't kill gore.

They're harder now.

[Nedala]

Originally Posted by Bubbles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree with most everything else you said but....

c'mon seriously....

There's a huge difference between having 30-70 people a tweet/text away from sitting on a raid mob's nuts, and 'being able to kill kunark targets'.

The only real 'skill' encounter left out there is VP, and it'd be pretty hard to ignore the idea that the real 'skill' in VP is going to be locking Trak down hard enough to keep any other guild with a pulse and the ability to google out of the zone entirely. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We were the only guild able to kill gore prior to the patch, and shes a lot harder now since the last nerf. Im pretty sure most guilds cant kill her, nor trak.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Nedala [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We were the only guild able to kill gore prior to the patch, and shes a lot harder now since the last nerf. Im pretty sure most guilds cant kill her, nor trak.

They can if they know how. No offense, but throwing alot of people at a mob is not the only strategy in EQ, its just the easiest and most forgiving when mistakes are made by individuals. There were lots of "smaller" guilds killing this stuff in 2000. Sometimes you have to think outside the box.