<Brexit>

[Jimjam]

Rather than get bogged down in the details, I think we can agree the leave campaign was much more effective than the remain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. Leave made better promises than remain's campaign scares 'project fear'. TBH Remain could have focused on publicizing the benefits of being in Europe, but Leave was able to portray that we'd be able to keep all the best bits while cutting away the chaff.

When we actually get round to leaving Europe I guess we'll find out which was right: Leave's promises vs Remain's 'project fear'. Hopefully leave was right, but realistically one would expect the cards to fall somewhere in the middle. Hopefully project fear was wrong!


You got me interested in seeing how the leave campaign was covered vs what is being delivered.

I decided to find coverage of when Boris came out as a leaver.

"Because I want a better deal for the people of this Country. To save them money and to take back control"

I was particularly interested in the end of his talk.

https://youtu.be/aRjl4biSmZ4?t=338 (5:38 if the time stamp glitches)

"I think it is so important to focus on the question at hand: Is it better for the people of Britain to remain in Europe as it currently is, or is there a way that we could get a better deal?"

The way I recall it, no deal was something everyone assured would not happen. It was all about getting a better deal that would restore British Democracy and some control to the people of this country (sorry for taking words out your mouth again Bojo).

The interesting thing, is before this clip Bojo had always been a Europhile (and something he openly admits in the clip). He is great at hiding his mercenary nature. Just before the timestamp I showed you, he retorts that his flip on Europhile/Eurosceptic was not part of an attempt to manoeuvre into leadership of the conservative party.

I guess the way things have ended up is somewhat a happy accident for him then? Regardless, I hope he focuses on the question at hand, is there a way to get a better deal or is it better for the people of Britain to remain in Europe.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rather than get bogged down in the details, I think we can agree the leave campaign was much more effective than the remain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. Leave made better promises than remain's campaign scares 'project fear'. TBH Remain could have focused on publicizing the benefits of being in Europe, but Leave was able to portray that we'd be able to keep all the best bits while cutting away the chaff.

When we actually get round to leaving Europe I guess we'll find out which was right: Leave's promises vs Remain's 'project fear'. Hopefully leave was right, but realistically one would expect the cards to fall somewhere in the middle. Hopefully project fear was wrong!


You got me interested in seeing how the leave campaign was covered vs what is being delivered.

I decided to find coverage of when Boris came out as a leaver.

"Because I want a better deal for the people of this Country. To save them money and to take back control"

I was particularly interested in the end of his talk.

https://youtu.be/aRjl4biSmZ4?t=338 (5:38 if the time stamp glitches)

"I think it is so important to focus on the question at hand: Is it better for the people of Britain to remain in Europe as it currently is, or is there a way that we could get a better deal?"

The way I recall it, no deal was something everyone assured would not happen. It was all about getting a better deal that would restore British Democracy and some control to the people of this country (sorry for taking words out your mouth again Bojo).

The interesting thing, is before this clip Bojo had always been a Europhile (and something he openly admits in the clip). He is great at hiding his mercenary nature. Just before the timestamp I showed you, he retorts that his flip on Europhile/Eurosceptic was not part of an attempt to manoeuvre into leadership of the conservative party.

I guess the way things have ended up is somewhat a happy accident for him then? Regardless, I hope he focuses on the question at hand, is there a way to get a better deal or is it better for the people of Britain to remain in Europe.

Part of the problem is British non Brexit elites are obviously cozy with the mega EU elites of Europe and they obviously coordinate to put the pro Brexit side in impossible positions so the anti Brexit elites can throw their hands up in the air and say ‘nothing can be done’. Really it’s a lot acting in bad faith and working with the enemy to usurp their common people’s vote.

The way the EU is treating an independent UK is abhorrent. At best you could consider the EUs stance on making things hard for the UK a highly aggressive act against what should be classified as a hostile nation. At worst, the EUs attitude towards developing trade with an independent UK could be an act of war.

What justification does the EU have to treat the UK this way if not to act as rulers and punish the common people for voting wrong?

[Domo]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What justification does the EU have to treat the UK this way if not to act as rulers and punish the common people for voting wrong?

How does the EU is treating the UK?

So far I know the UK is acting like a cheerypicker; "I want out, but I still want all benefits"
Like WTF?
Why should the EU give the UK a special threatment?

Norway didnt get it, Switzerland didnt get it, Iceland didnt get it, so why on earth should the EU act to the UK diffrent than to other non EU-countrys?

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by Domo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How does the EU is treating the UK?

So far I know the UK is acting like a cheerypicker; "I want out, but I still want all benefits"
Like WTF?
Why should the EU give the UK a special threatment?

Norway didnt get it, Switzerland didnt get it, Iceland didnt get it, so why on earth should the EU act to the UK diffrent than to other non EU-countrys?

Because in 2019 everyone trades with everyone. The only people that don't trade together and help each other out are hostile nations. Particularly ones that commit human rights violations regularly. Does that describe UK nations?

For what reason does the EU have to be hostile and not help out the UK when they go independent?

Treating the UK like a bordering friend is standard, not special treatment.

[Domo]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because in 2019 everyone trades with everyone. The only people that don't trade together and help each other out are hostile nations. Particularly ones that commit human rights violations regularly. Does that describe UK nations?

For what reason does the EU have to be hostile and not help out the UK when they go independent?

Treating the UK like a bordering friend is standard, not special treatment.

I dont know about other countrys, but the EU dont trade with everyone. It was that way before Brexit already. And I belive the UK knew this also before the Brexit.

The EU set up some standarts (regulations) to protect their citizens.
Like, you are not allowed to sell products in the EU which use cheap and harmful plastic.
What guarantee does the EU have that the UK are not buying cheap plastic from China and re-sell it in the EU?


Trade-deals are way more complex than you can imagine. This is not some kind of computergame like Civilization 6 where you make a deal by doing 10 clicks.


And btw, the EU really likes to have a trade-deal with the UK, but it wont change their rules for the UK. It will treat the UK the same way they treat other non-EU countrys who like to join the singelmarket ( like Norway, Iceland, Switzerland etc.)
For me it sounds fair.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by Domo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dont know about other countrys, but the EU dont trade with everyone. It was that way before Brexit already. And I belive the UK knew this also before the Brexit.

The EU set up some standarts (regulations) to protect their citizens.
Like, you are not allowed to sell products in the EU which use cheap and harmful plastic.
What guarantee does the EU have that the UK are not buying cheap plastic from China and re-sell it in the EU?


Trade-deals are way more complex than you can imagine. This is not some kind of computergame like Civilization 6 where you make a deal by doing 10 clicks.


And btw, the EU really likes to have a trade-deal with the UK, but it wont change their rules for the UK. It will treat the UK the same way they treat other non-EU countrys who like to join the singelmarket ( like Norway, Iceland, Switzerland etc.)
For me it sounds fair.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...European_Union

Look at the first two nations. Are they part of the European Union?

If there's a struggling, friendly nation next to the EU what should the EU do as a friend?

The rhetoric I heard was to make things as difficult as possible for the UK which is fucked up.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Domo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How does the EU is treating the UK?

So far I know the UK is acting like a cheerypicker; "I want out, but I still want all benefits"
Like WTF?
Why should the EU give the UK a special threatment?

Norway didnt get it, Switzerland didnt get it, Iceland didnt get it, so why on earth should the EU act to the UK diffrent than to other non EU-countrys?

For me it is EU forbidding UK from prospectively negotiating deals with 3rd parties.

I understand member states can't negotiate special deals with outsiders, but the UK should be able to have deals ready for when Brexit actually happens.

I actually agree with much of Teppler's post 290, awful behaviour all round.