Introducing Project 1999: Green

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Riiyan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can we get some type of donation feedback prior to server releasing? Like are we on track with the current donations to procure new equipment? Is this going to be a problem at current donation rates?

Historically that hasn't been Rogean's style. P99 isn't a non-profit, so they don't have to disclose anything: your money essentially goes into a black box. In fact, Rogean mentioning that the new Green hardware is expensive is probably the closest he's ever come to giving any info whatsoever about P99's finances.

To be clear, I'm not trying to imply that anyone is secretly profiting off P99. All it takes is a little "back of the envelope" math to realize that clearly isn't the case. I'm also not suggesting that the (relatively tiny) Project 1999 should file as a 501c non-profit org [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm just saying, this is a small fan project, and they seem to have an attitude of "we'll take what we can get in donations, we'll pay for the rest out of pocket, and doing anything more (like providing transparency) is too much hassle". That's worked for them in the past, and it hasn't stopped people from donating in spite of it.

[BlackBellamy]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...it hasn't stopped people from donating in spite of it.

I donated based on past value [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] This way I can't be disappointed about how I spent it.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Cyph [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was about to post something similar but thankfully we have other people that share this mindset. Maybe we could have some indication to what a donation and amount would cover, for example, "A $50 donation covers the operational cost of [something] for [duration].".

I agree that would be nice ... and really in general I'm a very pro-transparency person. If you're going to beg people for money, I feel you owe them an honest explanation of where it's going.

But since P99 isn't "begging" for your money, they're just sort of saying "we're paying for all this so you can play here, and we wouldn't mind some help", I think BlackBellamy had it exactly right. You can donate ...

Originally Posted by BlackBellamy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

based on past value [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] This way I can't be disappointed about how I spent it.

Also, another challenge to releasing a "monthly cost of operations" number is that Rogean hosts the P99 servers the old school way (he builds a physical machine and installs it in a data center; no AWS here). So there's both fixed monthly data center hosting costs, unplanned non-monthly costs (eg. a hard drive failed and needs replacing), and planned non-monthly costs (eg. the new Green server). Not to mention of course Rogean's time: even if he never paid a single hardware cost or hosting fee, if Rogean just charged us half his professional rate this project would likely go belly up in a month or two [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I get the sense that Rogean isn't trying to keep those numbers a secret so much as he doesn't want to take the time to review his receipts and bank statements and such to calculate that number ... and again, he's ok with losing whatever people aren't willing to donate as a result, because he knows most still will:

Originally Posted by BlackBellamy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

based on past value [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Nagoya]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Historically that hasn't been Rogean's style. P99 isn't a non-profit, so they don't have to disclose anything: your money essentially goes into a black box. In fact, Rogean mentioning that the new Green hardware is expensive is probably the closest he's ever come to giving any info whatsoever about P99's finances.

To be clear, I'm not trying to imply that anyone is secretly profiting off P99. All it takes is a little "back of the envelope" math to realize that clearly isn't the case. I'm also not suggesting that the (relatively tiny) Project 1999 should file as a 501c non-profit org [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm just saying, this is a small fan project, and they seem to have an attitude of "we'll take what we can get in donations, we'll pay for the rest out of pocket, and doing anything more (like providing transparency) is too much hassle". That's worked for them in the past, and it hasn't stopped people from donating in spite of it.

good one loramin.
riiyan's post history makes me affraid that his question was not innocent at all.
a donation is by definition a gift, no strings attached.
give if you want, don't give if you don't want.
don't worry for their finances they don't need an accountant.

[Cyph]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Historically that hasn't been Rogean's style. P99 isn't a non-profit, so they don't have to disclose anything: your money essentially goes into a black box. In fact, Rogean mentioning that the new Green hardware is expensive is probably the closest he's ever come to giving any info whatsoever about P99's finances.

To be clear, I'm not trying to imply that anyone is secretly profiting off P99. All it takes is a little "back of the envelope" math to realize that clearly isn't the case. I'm also not suggesting that the (relatively tiny) Project 1999 should file as a 501c non-profit org [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm just saying, this is a small fan project, and they seem to have an attitude of "we'll take what we can get in donations, we'll pay for the rest out of pocket, and doing anything more (like providing transparency) is too much hassle". That's worked for them in the past, and it hasn't stopped people from donating in spite of it.

I was about to post something similar but thankfully we have other people that share this mindset. Maybe we could have some indication to what a donation and amount would cover, for example, "A $50 donation covers the operational cost of [something] for [duration].".