What would you roll if.........

[Shadey]

Originally Posted by Doors [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No matter how twinked out a caster gets, you're going to be medding a shit ton. Even a fungi on a shaman you're spamming canni more than you're actually fighting mobs.

Melees you twink the fuck out and go, fungi covers hp regen, hybrid mana isn't really an issue downtime for med isn't bad.

up to about lvl 16 sure. But as mobs get harder so does the need to sit and regen hp because they hit a lot harder. Sure the fungi will help a lot. But a necro kiting yellow con mobs and medding while agro kiting will out xp a melee easy.

[soup]

Originally Posted by Shadey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

up to about lvl 16 sure. But as mobs get harder so does the need to sit and regen hp because they hit a lot harder. Sure the fungi will help a lot. But a necro kiting yellow con mobs and medding while agro kiting will out xp a melee easy.

Well, for one thing, he didn't say a uber twinked melee out exps the necro, he said it's not as exciting, since the caster does the same damage no matter how much you twink it, whereas the melee can be doing OMFG RAPE damage relative to it's level.

Past that, as someone who has recently leveled a necro into the 50s and very recently leveled a monk to 50, I firmly believe that my monk was leveling much MUCH quicker than the necro. However, I do think the monk had the 25% exp bonus going and the necro didn't, but the monk was leveling much quicker, so it probably balances out about the same.

Uber twinking just doesn't do as much for casters as it does for melee. Obviously it's a huge help, but just doesn't have the same effect, though there are exceptions. For example, if you have a Rod of Annihilation on your necro, you can melee for 120 at level 20. Using that and a Tola robe will give you an insane DPS boost.

[Shadey]

Originally Posted by soup [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, for one thing, he didn't say a uber twinked melee out exps the necro, he said it's not as exciting, since the caster does the same damage no matter how much you twink it, whereas the melee can be doing OMFG RAPE damage relative to it's level.

Past that, as someone who has recently leveled a necro into the 50s and very recently leveled a monk to 50, I firmly believe that my monk was leveling much MUCH quicker than the necro. However, I do think the monk had the 25% exp bonus going and the necro didn't, but the monk was leveling much quicker, so it probably balances out about the same.

Uber twinking just doesn't do as much for casters as it does for melee. Obviously it's a huge help, but just doesn't have the same effect, though there are exceptions. For example, if you have a Rod of Annihilation on your necro, you can melee for 120 at level 20. Using that and a Tola robe will give you an insane DPS boost.

The dmg is relative to the necros hp, mana pool and mana/hp regen. Swap out that fungi for a mana stone. Get lots of hp/mana/int gear. Get all the spells (costs a lot as you lvl up and increases dmg A LOT just like twinking a melee does). Once the Lich surpasses the Mana Stone you can sell it or throw it to an alt.

As far as a Monk lvln as fast as necro I doubt that and as you said it had the xp bonus going. Which makes a big difference.

As far as fun it all depends on what you like. A necro can do OMFG dmg too when played right. LOL.

[soup]

Originally Posted by Shadey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The dmg is relative to the necros hp, mana pool and mana/hp regen. Swap out that fungi for a mana stone. Get lots of hp/mana/int gear. Get all the spells (costs a lot as you lvl up and increases dmg A LOT just like twinking a melee does). Once the Lich surpasses the Mana Stone you can sell it or throw it to an alt.

As far as a Monk lvln as fast as necro I doubt that and as you said it had the xp bonus going. Which makes a big difference.

As far as fun it all depends on what you like. A necro can do OMFG dmg too when played right. LOL.

I don't really understand how you're missing the point so terribly.

Gear doesn't increase the necros damage. Period. It gives a larger pool of health and mana to work with. His damage is the same. The fact that you mention having up to date spells as if it wasn't a given shows you aren't even close to being on the same page we're talking about in regard to uber twinks. The difference in damage between an uber twink necro and regular geared necro is zero. The spells do the same damage either way.

Now compare the damage difference between a no haste monk with Fighting Batons to a 24%+ hasted monk with a RFS and lots of STR gear. The difference is absolutely absurd.

It sounds like you haven't played an uber twink melee (or any uber twink for that matter) so I'm not sure what you use to make the judgement that a uber tiwnked monk couldn't level as fast as a necro.

[Shadey]

Originally Posted by soup [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't really understand how you're missing the point so terribly.

Gear doesn't increase the necros damage. Period. It gives a larger pool of health and mana to work with. His damage is the same. The fact that you mention having up to date spells as if it wasn't a given shows you aren't even close to being on the same page we're talking about in regard to uber twinks. The difference in damage between an uber twink necro and regular geared necro is zero. The spells do the same damage either way.

Now compare the damage difference between a no haste monk with Fighting Batons to a 24%+ hasted monk with a RFS and lots of STR gear. The difference is absolutely absurd.

It sounds like you haven't played an uber twink melee (or any uber twink for that matter) so I'm not sure what you use to make the judgement that a uber tiwnked monk couldn't level as fast as a necro.

I guess your not getting the point. You give a Necro those tools I mentioned and his overall dps will be higher then the twinked out monk. He will pull more mobs and kill more mobs thus his "overall" dps will be MUCH higher. Gaining xp faster. Are you getting it yet??

And having up to date spells isn't an option for everyone unless they are making very good plat and lucking out in drops of mob dropped spells or words for their research (and skilling research isn't cheap either). For those without a big bank account backing them its a struggle to get all their spells. Guess you wouldn't know that since you must be rich. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It sounds to me like you don't know much about Necro's. Maybe you should comment when learn a bit more.

[soup]

Originally Posted by Shadey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess your not getting the point. You give a Necro those tools I mentioned and his overall dps will be higher then the twinked out monk. He will pull more mobs and kill more mobs thus his "overall" dps will be MUCH higher. Gaining xp faster. Are you getting it yet??

And having up to date spells isn't an option for everyone unless they are making very good plat and lucking out in drops of mob dropped spells or words for their research (and skilling research isn't cheap either). For those without a big bank account backing them its a struggle to get all their spells. Guess you wouldn't know that since you must be rich. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It sounds to me like you don't know much about Necro's. Maybe you should comment when learn a bit more.

I like how you accuse me of not getting it, then go on some rant that misses the point entirely, lol

The difference in DPS between a uber twinked necro and a regular geared necro is ZERO. There is NO DPS difference. The time difference in leveling a massively twinked necro and a regular geared necro is minuscule. The only thing that would make a significant difference is if you have a manastone+fungi staff or a Rod of Annihilation + Tola robe. Having JUST a manastone would help, but wont make a huge ground breaking difference in leveling time.

Compare that to a monk, where a monk with a fungi robe and a Wu's Quivering Staff (a cheap low end weapon, imagine what the monk could do with a RFS and 36% haste) will easily level twice as fast as a monk with fighting batons and random crappy armor. That's the point of the original statement about a twinked caster not being as exciting. Your damage isn't boosted except with a couple very rare exceptions as a caster, whereas the difference it makes in melee is insane. Whether a necro kills more than the monk is completely irrelevant to the original statement.

I do like how you toss in that bit about me not knowing much about necros. You've made several statements that make it clear you speak not from experience, but from assumptions and hypotheticals, whereas I am speaking from experience (not that you need experience to know that more HP and MANA wont make your spells do more damage.)

[Shadey]

Originally Posted by soup [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like how you accuse me of not getting it, then go on some rant that misses the point entirely, lol

The difference in DPS between a uber twinked necro and a regular geared necro is ZERO. There is NO DPS difference. The time difference in leveling a massively twinked necro and a regular geared necro is minuscule. The only thing that would make a significant difference is if you have a manastone+fungi staff or a Rod of Annihilation + Tola robe. Having JUST a manastone would help, but wont make a huge ground breaking difference in leveling time.

Compare that to a monk, where a monk with a fungi robe and a Wu's Quivering Staff (a cheap low end weapon, imagine what the monk could do with a RFS and 36% haste) will easily level twice as fast as a monk with fighting batons and random crappy armor. That's the point of the original statement about a twinked caster not being as exciting. Your damage isn't boosted except with a couple very rare exceptions as a caster, whereas the difference it makes in melee is insane. Whether a necro kills more than the monk is completely irrelevant to the original statement.

I do like how you toss in that bit about me not knowing much about necros. You've made several statement that make it clear you speak not from experience, but from assumptions and hypothetical ideas, whereas I am speaking from experience (not that you need experience to know that more HP and MANA wont make your spells do more damage.)

You clearly don't what I am saying or Necro's at all for that matter. I'm speaking from 7+ years experience in live from the start of eq to the top of Omens (raiding all end game content and doing all xp zones). How long have you played a necro?

I guess you need some glasses or something in order to read what I wrote so you might be able to comprehend what i'm saying (or someone to explain it to you really slow). Because there is one key word and one key phrase your totally missing "OVERALL" (need a dictionary???) in regards to the phrase that the overall dps of the Necro will be much higher as they will be able to pull more often, cast more often and kill faster with the gear mentioned. This is the key where the "OVERALL" dps will be much higher!


You clearly do not understand the class. Your basing your assumptions off of your limited experience.

[gnomishfirework]

Originally Posted by Shadey

I guess your not getting the point. You give a Necro those tools I mentioned and his overall dps will be higher then the twinked out monk. He will pull more mobs and kill more mobs thus his "overall" dps will be MUCH higher. Gaining xp faster. Are you getting it yet??

And having up to date spells isn't an option for everyone unless they are making very good plat and lucking out in drops of mob dropped spells or words for their research (and skilling research isn't cheap either). For those without a big bank account backing them its a struggle to get all their spells. Guess you wouldn't know that since you must be rich. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It sounds to me like you don't know much about Necro's. Maybe you should comment when learn a bit more.

You are awkward in your phrasing. It's uptime, not dps, that would be greater. I understand you mean the necros total damage per an extended amount of time will exceed a monk because they have less downtime, but it's an odd way of putting it.

Kills per hour or exp per hour is what you should be saying.

[Shadey]

Originally Posted by gnomishfirework [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are awkward in your phrasing. It's uptime, not dps, that would be greater. I understand you mean the necros total damage per an extended amount of time will exceed a monk because they have less downtime, but it's an odd way of putting it.

Kills per hour or exp per hour is what you should be saying.

All depends on what your used to. In my years of experience overall dps is a common phrase. But you are correct in your interpretation. Thank you. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]