Was total BiS a thing during live?

[Atmas]

People did not have full BiS on live. Expansions came out about every year and people did not have all the knowledge that people had here. People didn't have BiS Kunark when Velious came out and they certainly weren't killing bosses so early on. AoW and Tunare were killed just a handful of times before Luclin.

[Nuggie]

Originally Posted by Atmas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

people did not have all the knowledge that people had here. .

I did not know how bad I was at EQ until I played on P99 a few years... it was quite an eye opening experience. Ate quite a slice of humble pie when I started raiding here.

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by Nuggie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did not know how bad I was at EQ until I played on P99 a few years... it was quite an eye opening experience. Ate quite a slice of humble pie when I started raiding here.

*shrug*, being "good" at EQ / P99 is simply a matter of time you spend playing. There are no problems to solve in this game and no skill really involved (unless you factor in PvP).

The less time you spend IRL with your friends, family, or studying / working / traveling, the better you can be at EQ.

Don't know if there ever was any humble pie to be had.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

*shrug*, being "good" at EQ / P99 is simply a matter of time you spend playing. There are no problems to solve in this game and no skill really involved (unless you factor in PvP).

The less time you spend IRL with your friends, family, or studying / working / traveling, the better you can be at EQ.

Don't know if there ever was any humble pie to be had.

This stigma about admitting that a video game requires skill to be good at is silly. The ability to perform given actions within a video game is patently a skill:

skill
/skil/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the ability to do something well; expertise.

You even spell out how to improve at eq, which is the same way you improve at literally anything, but claim eq takes no skill.

Why are some long time players awful if all it takes is time investment? Why are some new players very effective if they haven't put the time in? Your claim is clearly false.

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This stigma about admitting that a video game requires skill to be good at is silly. The ability to perform given actions within a video game is patently a skill:

skill
/skil/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the ability to do something well; expertise.

You even spell out how to improve at eq, which is the same way you improve at literally anything, but claim eq takes no skill.

Why are some long time players awful if all it takes is time investment? Why are some new players very effective if they haven't put the time in? Your claim is clearly false.

I don't know what you mean by being good or bad at EQ. How do you decide if someone is good? By the gear they have? Getting great gear is simply a matter of joining one of the top guilds and attending as many raids as possible, while performing some very basic tasks such as pressing autoattack, complete healing, or maybe a couple buff buttons for 97% of the people.

Chess takes skill. Boxing takes skill. Painting takes skill. EQ takes knowledge of the basic mechanics and inordinate amounts of time invested.

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know what you mean by being good or bad at EQ. How do you decide if someone is good?

People who got their characters from Ebay were typically bad, didn't know how to play their class, didn't know about their spells, where to be, what to do or how to do it. I suppose that could be filed under your comment about knowing game mechanics.

We also have 20 years of gaming knowledge and games being even more mainstream than back then. Top entertainment currently iirc. Social media and things like youtube to making understanding things easier beforehand rather than jumping in and being a total idiot.

Which computer games (if any) require skill?

If EQ is the McDonalds of computer gaming then which games are to be considered equal to a Law degree or something like that?

<---- played with arrow keys and would use mouse hand to spacebar jump.

Eq may very well be a game that requires no skill, it would be different if applied knowledge of the Katana were required or some form of Ninjitsu.

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by Mblake81 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which computer games (if any) require skill?

I only play two games - EQ and Quake Live, which is a modernized version of Quake 3.

QL revolves around skill and pretty much nothing else IMO.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know what you mean by being good or bad at EQ. How do you decide if someone is good? By the gear they have? Getting great gear is simply a matter of joining one of the top guilds and attending as many raids as possible, while performing some very basic tasks such as pressing autoattack, complete healing, or maybe a couple buff buttons for 97% of the people.

Chess takes skill. Boxing takes skill. Painting takes skill. EQ takes knowledge of the basic mechanics and inordinate amounts of time invested.

Your own reasoning works again you, you just don't see it. Being good at chess takes skill. Owning a chess trophy does not. Winning boxing matches against skilled opponents takes skill. Owning a belt does not. Painting a masterpiece takes skill. Owning a masterpiece does not.

Playing EQ well takes skill. Owning gear does not.


And, of course, how much skill you demonstrate can vary. Nobody claims throwing out a few raid buffs or autoattacking while facing the right direction is especially skillful. But you're disingenuous or an idiot if you don't see there's skill to many eq activities.

Being a puller who balances his rate to provide fun and exp and loot chances for his group without overwhelming them or boring them. Extra credit if you can do that without stepping on the toes of the people next door or losing nameds to a lame solo chanter sniper.

Breaking fear solo as a druid. Soloing protector as a shaman. Crawling through named velks dogs as a chanter. Generally tackling content with small numbers. Leveling with a few pals in the bottom of najena or dalnir instead of in Oasis or FM. Being a good bard. Etc.

You also ignore that there is a "puzzle solving" going on in the game still. Just because someone else has figured something out doesn't mean everyone instantly has. Over time, p99 has slowly and steadily been tweaked. Someone using a 50 necro to charm in vanilla had it all figured out, but that isnt how it works anymore. People didn't change their methods because "it's all been solved, there's nothing new, we all know everything" or whatever. Etc.


I am anxiously awaiting more non sequiturs and straw men from you [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Myke]

On Bristlebane, not one person was even remotely close to BiS by the end of velious. There were 3 raiding guilds, so there was some competition, but the very best geared had 1-2 vulak loots plus a few ntov pieces. Most hardcore raiders were pretty excited to have 1 or 2 ntov pieces. HoT and Kael armor was common in the raid guilds and having full HoT gear was considered doing well. The sleeper was actually up for a little while, so many people had primals. And even after it was woken guilds continued to farm ST golems.

That said, bristlebane was one of the oldest and most populated servers, so lots of people were in the raid scene

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am anxiously awaiting more non sequiturs and straw men from you [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It feels like we're not debating the same topic really.

I'm not saying that chanting through velk named dogs is just a matter of time, of course it takes skill (and luck). And of course setting up complex pulls in VP or ToV is also a matter of skill.

If we decide that being able to do something like that is being good at EQ, very well, but that will mean that probably at least 95% of P99 players are "bad" and only a few select ones will earn the "good" label.