Bard or Ranger?

[deezy]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On these fights were you utilizing trueshot or straight up meleeing? Do you own/use a BFG?

I mean only straight up normal ol' auto attack fights. Trueshot/BFG would skew the results.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If we’re talking literally melee damage vs melee damage ... I don’t know man. It simply doesn’t make sense. It could be true, but it neither computes nor have I heard this to be a consensus generally held by the community. I certainly have not seen it. I’ve seen ToV rangers beat lesser geared monks. I’ve parsed Aikons (old friend) sustain numbers with just my shaman’s gimp ass haste that I’ve never seen any ranger consistently maintain.

Aikons is an exceptionally geared monk. I've not talked to him in a while, but he might be BIS everything or pretty close to it. My gear isn't quite to that quality.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s better weapons, more hits, higher offense, more total hits vs innate ranger attack + ??

I dunno. Maybe? Doesn’t make a lick of rational sense though.

What I do know is my epic/sos monk 34% worn haste consistently beats out a 60 ranger buddy with blam stick and swiftwind.

It's a secret to everybody. I'll say I do a fair amount of damage from procs and keep swiftwind in my secondary for the additional 30 atk. I've read a claw of lightening will increase dps by approx 15% over swiftwind, but I've never parsed that.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by deezy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aikons is an exceptionally geared monk. I've not talked to him in a while, but he might be BIS everything or pretty close to it. My gear isn't quite to that quality.

Correct but most of his gear advantage globally isn’t relevant for damage output. That’s just worn haste, his weapons and worn attack. If he had only his weapons, his haste item and enough single pieces of gear to buff his str out to 255 (which with those 3 items he could shaman stack to 255) he’d be operating at 99% or more of his total dps potential once properly buffed, and that’s what I’m trying to get across. Most of his BiS gear gives him his nuts ac/resists/hp. A surprisingly small number of those pieces translates to damage.

ToV level raiding is unique in that most end-game raid weapons are multiclass and all of the mutliclass last I checked cap out several clicks under the 0.8 ratio. Monk weapons are over 0.8 (0.83 specifically I think). A ToV monk will use these weapons while waiting on class specific drops because they’re better than kunark. It’s an interesting situation where for a narrow window of times everyone is functioning with identical weaponry levels. It’s a temporary bump.

If you give a monk 2 jade maces and a ranger 2 jade maces the dps is going to be closer than it would if the monk was allowed to use superior monk specific ratios. Most melee have 13/20 primals. Monks get 15/20. In kunark rangers sport epic ratios. Monk epic at it’s speed provides a big advantage ... nevermind the fact that pre-velious they can double up on 16/22 sky fists.

Long story short: it’s disingenuous (purposely or otherwise) to compare class potential when one of them is more or less using BiS class ratios and the other one is just waiting on theirs to drop. Prior to ToV monk ratio weapons are readily available and more potent in pretty significant ways. From level 1 if twinking monks have this advantage, fairly or otherwise, up until the moment a guild breaks into ToV. There’s a temporary speedbump where a guild acquires weapons in general but hasn’t seen the monk specific drops where the playing field is more level.

I used Aikons as an example intentionally. I know he has his BiS ratios. His white damage alone (can’t parse procs) with just 50% shaman haste is absolutely insane even while tanking. I’d love to see how crazy it’d be raid buffed and in a dps group. Even more, I’d love to see it side by side the melee dps of a melee BiS ranger in the same group with the same buffs.

I’m pretty confident I know which person would put out bigger numbers. It’s the same person (class) who put out higher numbers in kunark.

[deezy]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Correct but most of his gear advantage globally isn’t relevant for damage output. That’s just worn haste, his weapons and worn attack.

That is literally every stat that gives a melee any sort of damage output.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If he had only his weapons, his haste item and enough single pieces of gear to buff his str out to 255 (which with those 3 items he could shaman stack to 255) he’d be operating at 99% or more of his total dps potential once properly buffed

Are we comparing worn atk? I would estimate he would be closer to 85-90% of his operational dps without any worn atk, but I don't know the nuances of monk damage.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A surprisingly small number of those pieces translates to damage.

Isn't that true for everybody though? I'd say it's even more true for nearly every other person on the server.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’d love to see it side by side the melee dps of a melee BiS ranger in the same group with the same buffs.

So would I.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’m pretty confident I know which person would put out bigger numbers. It’s the same person (class) who put out higher numbers in kunark.

That's a fun thought experiment and I'd love to know the data, but for the other 99.7% of the velious raiders - rangers have done more damage than monks approx. 3/4th of the time in the parses I've reviewed.