Let's talk CLASS BALANCE

[randal.flagg]

Originally Posted by Cfred0- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

tldr this is EQ not wow, classes arent balanced get over it.

Its a discussion, get over it. I don't know why people flame so much... its so pointless and just distracts from a genuinely interesting conversation.

[Ennoia]

Originally Posted by randal.flagg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its a discussion, get over it. I don't know why people flame so much... its so pointless and just distracts from a genuinely interesting conversation.

It's so pointless to discuss class balance because that's how the game is/was/always has been.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Ennoia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's so pointless to discuss class balance because that's how the game is/was/always has been.

Several people keep making that statement, but that statement is a blatant lie. There is no such thing as one set "that's how the game is/was/always has been."

Again, I will say: Class balance, as well as a multitude of other game features, changed many times during the Classic era. This very server has constantly made specific decisions as to how it wants things to be. This very server is not an exact replica of Everquest at ANY point in its history. This server is trying to replicate an original EQ experience in the most fair and effective ways possible. When we first played EQ, a lot of the flaws didn't really matter because the game itself was so enrapturing. Now that we no longer have the "ignorance is bliss" perception towards the game, steps should be taken to make it the best game it can possibly be with regards to recapturing the ESSENCE of what original EQ was.

Originally Posted by odizzido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyways I think it is pretty fair. If you want to do the most DPS you pay the price of being useless outside of a group.

The game is inherently ABOUT being in groups, though. You can't even solo very well at the higher levels. How is it fair that melee classes do 3x the damage, or more, of caster classes whose primary roles are to deal damage? Also, Shadowknights can solo quite well, so that ruins the argument you've put forth (note - I am not attacking you, just trying to set forth the facts here).

[Spud]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, I will say: Class balance, as well as a multitude of other game features, changed many times during the Classic era. This very server has constantly made specific decisions as to how it wants things to be. This very server is not an exact replica of Everquest at ANY point in its history. This server is trying to replicate an original EQ experience in the most fair and effective ways possible. When we first played EQ, a lot of the flaws didn't really matter because the game itself was so enrapturing. Now that we no longer have the "ignorance is bliss" perception towards the game, steps should be taken to make it the best game it can possibly be with regards to recapturing the ESSENCE of what original EQ was.

Not true!

This server is ALL about replicating EQ as closely as possible through Velious, down to each nerf and patch.

Now... its not a 100% replica, perfect is not possible, there are certain limitations due to the eqemu coding. We're not forced to stare at our spell book while meding, but otherwise the dev team follows the EverQuest's patch history as close as possible.

Also I will echo what others have said say that the unbalanced nature of the classes makes this game interesting, it adds depth to the gameplay and makes specialized classes fun to play etc.

Can it be frustrating at times to be the Ranger who gets made fun of constantly in /ooc and is left out of groups? Sure but when you get to level 60 it makes the accomplishment that much more rewarding.

On live I played a cleric and could easily get in a group within minutes of logging on. But I was always jealous of the utility of the druids. I wanted DoTs, i wanted SoW, i wanted INVIS, i wanted to teleport, track and the ability to solo!!

So when p1999 came around I rolled a Druid. Now I can't complain when I have trouble finding groups when at the same time I can solo stuff naked.

BTW I mained healed a Karnors group for hours today at level 53. Once we get Superior Heal we are at least a viable backup option for MH if there is no cleric around.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Spud [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not true!

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How is it not true? Class balance factually changed throughout classic EQ.

Originally Posted by Spud [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also I will echo what others have said say that the unbalanced nature of the classes makes this game interesting, it adds depth to the gameplay and makes specialized classes fun to play etc. Can it be frustrating at times to be the Ranger who gets made fun of constantly in /ooc and is left out of groups? Sure but when you get to level 60 it makes the accomplishment that much more rewarding.

And what about the people who want to play those classes and not feel like they are crap? If you want to make the game harder for yourself you can specifically avoid the less easy zones as you adventure and try to level.

Adds depth to the gameplay? I really can't agree with that at all. Adding depth to the gameplay would be something that makes players interact more or something that makes the game require more skill. Playing a shitty class doesn't make the game require more skill, it just means you won't actually be able to go adventure and fight where/when you want to as a result of being undesirable for groups.

Originally Posted by Spud [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

BTW I mained healed a Karnors group for hours today at level 53. Once we get Superior Heal we are at least a viable backup option for MH if there is no cleric around.

I'm sorry but Karnor's isn't that demanding. Wait until you level up more and get into the hard zones. The content becomes so difficult that you MUST have a Cleric and you MUST have a buffed up melee (and only a Warrior or Monk suffices because, if "the timeline" is being followed, then Paladin's/SK's can't tank at that level and won't be able to until well into Velious). Often you MUST have a crowd controller as well.

After you've gotten up there with the Kunark content and are getting discouraged about just how little you're able to do, it only gets worse with Velious. The Holy Trinity of Warrior-Cleric-Enchanter becomes even MORE of a requirement there, as the monsters' resist rates and stats reach even higher heights of ridiculousness.

[Nagash]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sorry but Karnor's isn't that demanding. Wait until you level up more and get into the hard zones. The content becomes so difficult that you MUST have a Cleric and you MUST have a buffed up melee (and only a Warrior or Monk suffices because, if "the timeline" is being followed, then Paladin's/SK's can't tank at that level and won't be able to until well into Velious). Often you MUST have a crowd controller as well.

After you've gotten up there with the Kunark content and are getting discouraged about just how little you're able to do, it only gets worse with Velious. The Holy Trinity of Warrior-Cleric-Enchanter becomes even MORE of a requirement there, as the monsters' resist rates and stats reach even higher heights of ridiculousness.

On Live, I main healed as a shaman in Sebilis or Chardok (during Kunark era) or places like Kael during Velious and that was with no outside healing help and no one else but me to slow our targets. Some friends have done it with a druid or even with a paladin (yes my good lad, a paladin, now how's that for a roxorz pally?). This doesn't mean you don't have to tweak your group composition or strategy but it is most definitely doable. Note that I speak of tweak, as in small adjustments, not having to stick to a rigid group composition without which it would be impossible. EQ has been build around the concept of group and around the concept of having a lot of possibilities to make an efficient group.
I already highlighted that in another post of yours but you chose to ignore it. Learn to play before QQing.

At some point, the holy trinity became prevalent as it was the most effective way of doing things (group wise) but it was in no way mandatory, nor was it the only workable group backbone. I never had a problem finding a group, nor did any of my friends and none of us was a "server superstar" whose renown alone would have granted them a slot in a group. So yes, you will find some morons who think that nothing can be done without the holy trinity but you have the choice to ignore these dickheads and to give your attention to the rest of the population of the server. If it goes the way it was on Live at the time, the non-stupid population will more than outweight (in numbers) the others. It is a matter of choice, YOUR choice.

And if you want something so different, as I also highlighted in your other post, you have plenty of options as it is blatant that this server is not what you are after:
- go on another server
- make another server (you might be very successful and have a lot of people coming on it, who knows [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.])
- go to Live (when they re-open huhu) and play with no maps or any outside help

As already been very rightfully said by someone else, I will not bother quoting all your other points and refute them as it is obvious that you haven't made any research prior to posting. That would be easy but way too time consumming seeing how you can write two or three incoherent posts in the time I type one answer.