The Vegan is Thread.

[Evia]

Yikes.

First of all what does soy have to do with it?
Vegans eat more than just soy....
Just because 'Nature's full of everything trying to kill us' doesn't mean being a barbaric flesh eater is now logically justified. Eating meat isnt sustainable no matter how you try to 'slice' it, and anyone even half-woke can see and understand that. The way we treat creatures that cannot equally defend themselves,at the cost of our environment, and only for our own selfish gains is the root of what is wrong in our society. So many studies have shown you need little to no meat in order to sustain a healthy body. In fact, more and more evidence is showing how damaging meat consumption can be for humans.

Feel free to keep trying to macho-man up a logical excuse for an outdated and savage lifestyle though.

[Sonderbeast]

The ethic isn't about my feelings, or about health. At it's core Veganism has everything to do about what you believe about sentience.

We give humans rights because we believe there are unalienable rights due to their basic association as humans and the verifiable sentience, a.k.a. the ability to feel things (emotional feelings is what is implied here).

Note: it's not based on intelligence, nor on the ability to feel physical sensations.

So the question about eating animals is 'does this creature have the same experience of happiness, anger, love, concern, and care as me and does it share a self awareness of these emotions?'. The natural conclusion that follows, if I accept that certain animals exhibit sentience, is that those animals deserve the same rights that we attribute to other sentient beings, namely, the right to self-preservation and freedom.

If anyone has ever had a dog, you would be hard pressed to deny that you have seen, to some extent, an expression of these emotions from this animal. They express happiness, affection, shame, fear, and mine even pouts when I scold it. But is this truly a manifestation of emotions or do I anthropomorphize the animal to better help myself understand it? Am I rationalizing a societal norm of animal abuse and essentially 'murder' by continuing to promote the meat and dairy industries because it 'tastes good'?

Those are the questions that vegans wrestle with, and since there is no way to essentially 'prove' sentience, most vegans go with the 'I'd rather not take the chance of being a part of mass abuse' whereas many, myself included, sit on the fence with this idea until there is more concrete evidence.

In my mind there is no doubt that the American Agricultural industry is one of the worst polluters of our environment in the current day. More specifically the meat industry is by far contributing the most to greenhouse gas emissions, consumption of water, and pollution of water systems. A 1 lb. slab of muscle can take as much as 600 GALLONS of water to produce. That's absurd.

So for myself I've cut back on the consumption of meat based on concrete evidential science, but still haven't been able to fully embrace veganism, although I'm slowly moving that direction the more I continue to think about it.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Evia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Eating meat isnt sustainable no matter how you try to 'slice' it

Most developed countries have negative population growth. There is plenty of land to raise animals.

Originally Posted by Evia

The way we treat creatures that cannot equally defend themselves,at the cost of our environment, and only for our own selfish gains is the root of what is wrong in our society.

Evolution has not stopped on this planet, and you can't choose not to play. The strong and selfish will remain; the losers will be pruned from the gene pool.

[Sonderbeast]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Evolution has not stopped on this planet, and you can't choose not to play. The strong and selfish will remain; the losers will be pruned from the gene pool.

You can, in fact, choose not to play. In fact, it saves money and leads to a healthier lifestyle - "Strong and selfish" just proves anti-meat to be more reasonable.