Sneaky Handoffs Continue at OOT: AC

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Ghostly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People act like the lists is set in stone. No one is obligated to hand anything off to you based on a list.

While you may feel its the right thing to do to follow the list, its not required.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is not true. A list is an agreement between players ("I will hand the camp over to you next once I get my item"). The staff has said many times that they will enforce player agreements.

... granted they generally say that in response to stuff like Scout, or trade scams in EC, but I don't see why the same wouldn't apply here.

[Lojik]

I agree with what you said Loramin. The problems I see:

1) You're trusting the people keeping the "list" to adhere to their word. It appears that many at AC camp are not.

2) If they break the list and you report it to the GM, what is the burden of proof like to prove that you were slighted?

3) Will all GM's concur that lists are enforceable player agreements?

4) Even if a GM concurs and you can demonstrate sufficiently that you were slighted, what are the chances that a GM will be bothered to care about a slight of this nature?

If you're ok with those problems, then continue putting your name on lists and go about your way. If you don't worry too much about it, I don't think you'll be negatively affected too much.

If you're like the OP though and you really want that AC camp, you do not have to agree to the list. Player agreements aren't enforceable if both parties don't agree. Unless there is a specific rule written that says a player made list for a camp now becomes a server wide binding agreement, which I think is highly doubtful.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Lojik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree with what you said Loramin. The problems I see:

1) You're trusting the people keeping the "list" to adhere to their word. It appears that many at AC camp are not.

2) If they break the list and you report it to the GM, what is the burden of proof like to prove that you were slighted?

3) Will all GM's concur that lists are enforceable player agreements?

4) Even if a GM concurs and you can demonstrate sufficiently that you were slighted, what are the chances that a GM will be bothered to care about a slight of this nature?

As is often the case here, we don't really have rules except for the most basic stuff. Everything else is lawyerquest theory until a particular situation gets resolved by a particular GM.

I'm hopeful that if we (as a player community) can get the rules cleaned up and create a solid archive of GM rulings, we can remove a lot of the guesswork that players currently have to go through to follow the rules, without having to bother anyone on staff. Then, someday maybe we can convince the staff that they can still do their jobs just as easily if they change their absolute position of "never codifying rulings" to "let the players know the rules are ahead of time" ... or at least I can dream.

But for now laywerquest until proven wrong or right by an in-game encounter is the law of the land.

[Teppler]

Let’s say there’s a list and then the person at camp has a power outage for hours.

List is fucked.

Now let’s say the person owning the camp fakes a power outage to give camp to his friend 4th or 5th in line.

How would one police this?