P99 Enchanter Strike

[Throb]

Originally Posted by Marley [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

. I myself have found if the enchanter charms a mob a few levels lower, charm works great in a group of skilled players. I'm a cleric though, wtf do i know [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Uh, more like 15 levels below you (aka, light blue) and even then I've seen 10 second breaks. If you charm something even close to level 50 now the mana expense to constantly recharm on these fast breaks isn't worth the little bit of DPS the pet does when he isn't trying to rip off your face.

[Humerox]

funny how nobody's ponied up about how OP charm was on raids, and how it trivialized encounters to a ridiculous degree.

not knocking the chanters, god knows I luv 'em, but hey...

just sayin~

[Throb]

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

funny how nobody's ponied up about how OP charm was on raids, and how it trivialized encounters to a ridiculous degree.

not knocking the chanters, god knows I luv 'em, but hey...

just sayin~

Ponied up? There is no denying an army of charmed pets was way overpowered. Honestly, I think people are misremembering a lot of things regarding classic charm. Lots of enchanters didn't even use it, epsecially on raids. Hell, most necromancers and mages weren't allowed to use pets on raids. People were so completely illogical and unreasonable regarding any pets whatsoever on raids, and that continued well into Luclin and maybe beyond. It only takes a few idiots that can't control their shit to make people flip the fuck out and say enough is enough, no more pets.

However, the enchanters I knew that were good at it and knew their shit, were literally gods in classic. I don't know about your server, but on mine the first classes to solo lower guk (king and ghoul lord) in classic were enchanters and necromancers because of charm. In exp groups with a shaman and enc, the exp flowed even well into POP, until they nerfed it.

Making enchanters take it up the ass like this (and that IS what you're doing) is NOT classic. If you want to nerf charm fine, but let's be reasonable about it.... even if it does not fall in line with classic, someone needs to look at the resist checks and tell me it's not completely fucked up. There is a middle ground here that will let enchanters have some of their deserved power and appease the haters at the same time. Let's get there.

Thanks.

[Rilen]

To harp on a bit of what Throb said. I think most people are misleading themselves in thinking that charm is as it was on live. How many ench did you know with 255 charisma that constantly ran malo/tash on their pets? How many did you know that kept -MR items bagged specifically to give to pets to lower their break chances?

Like many things here, they seem OP'd because everyone knows the name of the game already. On live MANY things simply were not done the way they are here because of a lack of general knowledge of such things. I distinctly remember enchanters doing duo/trio work in Kunark, and I remember when my group of friends first got started in Velious charming giants in the arena. My little collective of friends would have been incapable of doing anything were it not for the ench holding a lieutenant in the arena as a pet.

The reason I remember for charm and pets in general not being as prevalent in the experience scene is that pets ALWAYS took a percentage of exp; even if you did 5 damage or whatever. Also, like Throb said, people had a stigma about people not controlling their pets, or a paranoia about pet pathing that over-rode whatever assistance they might have given on raids.

And to reiterate some of what I said, even after the charm nerfs on live I ran a PLing service for 60+ characters using druid charm as my primary method of xp. This was on a DRUID with approximately 200 charisma, no dire charm. I had no problem keeping pets for 10 minutes to kill 3-5 mobs before the charm broke and then I'd DD/DoT and kill the pet.

As it stands now, between not being able to retrieve items from pets, and the charms seeming to be entirely level based, the charm line for all classes involved is nearly useless. This isn't the way it should be for a character with 255 charisma, malo, and 5-10 levels on the mob being charmed.

It needs to be recognized that while people may not have their own anecdotal evidence of charm being powerful (or any "overused" ability here), 90% of that reason is because this server has MANY players with MUCH higher skill than any of our live servers had. The worst guilds on this server are still 10x better, and more knowledgeable than most of the population of any live server. Most people here flat out play at a higher skill level than what was seen normally on live. We don't all deserve to suffer, or be forced into some niche of mediocrity simply because we know what we're doing or understand how to play the game.

[ziahh]

Originally Posted by Rilen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To harp on a bit of what Throb said. I think most people are misleading themselves in thinking that charm is as it was on live. How many ench did you know with 255 charisma that constantly ran malo/tash on their pets? How many did you know that kept -MR items bagged specifically to give to pets to lower their break chances?

Like many things here, they seem OP'd because everyone knows the name of the game already. On live MANY things simply were not done the way they are here because of a lack of general knowledge of such things. I distinctly remember enchanters doing duo/trio work in Kunark, and I remember when my group of friends first got started in Velious charming giants in the arena. My little collective of friends would have been incapable of doing anything were it not for the ench holding a lieutenant in the arena as a pet.

The reason I remember for charm and pets in general not being as prevalent in the experience scene is that pets ALWAYS took a percentage of exp; even if you did 5 damage or whatever. Also, like Throb said, people had a stigma about people not controlling their pets, or a paranoia about pet pathing that over-rode whatever assistance they might have given on raids.

And to reiterate some of what I said, even after the charm nerfs on live I ran a PLing service for 60+ characters using druid charm as my primary method of xp. This was on a DRUID with approximately 200 charisma, no dire charm. I had no problem keeping pets for 10 minutes to kill 3-5 mobs before the charm broke and then I'd DD/DoT and kill the pet.

As it stands now, between not being able to retrieve items from pets, and the charms seeming to be entirely level based, the charm line for all classes involved is nearly useless. This isn't the way it should be for a character with 255 charisma, malo, and 5-10 levels on the mob being charmed.

It needs to be recognized that while people may not have their own anecdotal evidence of charm being powerful (or any "overused" ability here), 90% of that reason is because this server has MANY players with MUCH higher skill than any of our live servers had. The worst guilds on this server are still 10x better, and more knowledgeable than most of the population of any live server. Most people here flat out play at a higher skill level than what was seen normally on live. We don't all deserve to suffer, or be forced into some niche of mediocrity simply because we know what we're doing or understand how to play the game.

yep

[Ruinous]

Originally Posted by Throb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ponied up? There is no denying an army of charmed pets was way overpowered. Honestly, I think people are misremembering a lot of things regarding classic charm. Lots of enchanters didn't even use it, epsecially on raids. Hell, most necromancers and mages weren't allowed to use pets on raids. People were so completely illogical and unreasonable regarding any pets whatsoever on raids, and that continued well into Luclin and maybe beyond. It only takes a few idiots that can't control their shit to make people flip the fuck out and say enough is enough, no more pets.

However, the enchanters I knew that were good at it and knew their shit, were literally gods in classic. I don't know about your server, but on mine the first classes to solo lower guk (king and ghoul lord) in classic were enchanters and necromancers because of charm. In exp groups with a shaman and enc, the exp flowed even well into POP, until they nerfed it.

Making enchanters take it up the ass like this (and that IS what you're doing) is NOT classic. If you want to nerf charm fine, but let's be reasonable about it.... even if it does not fall in line with classic, someone needs to look at the resist checks and tell me it's not completely fucked up. There is a middle ground here that will let enchanters have some of their deserved power and appease the haters at the same time. Let's get there.

Thanks.

An army? How about one enchanter, with one charmed Cleric in hate making or breaking a KS group? Literally doing more DPS than any other group filled with DPS classes. Doesn't take an army, pal.

I don't know how many times it needs to be engraved into your thick skull to realize Enchanters were a utility class. Not a DPS class. The truth of the matter is that the Dev's do their best to recreate a classic experience. This isn't some personal vendetta against your class. They are simply doing what they believe is truthful to classic (which many people, aside from the squeaky wheels complaining, will attest to). If you want to disprove them, work less with "OMG CHARM BROKED AFTER 1.32 SEC AND THE MOB TOUCHED ME IN THE NAUGHTY PLACE" and work more with solid evidence to disprove that the system is currently incorrect.

If you chose to play the class simply for Charming alone, you chose the wrong reasons. Ya'll are bitching quite a bit about the game not being easy any more for you. You came here knowing full well that classic EQ was not, which separated it out from the rest of the MMO's that followed.

[Throb]

Originally Posted by Ruinous [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

An army? How about one enchanter, with one charmed Cleric in hate making or breaking a KS group? Literally doing more DPS than any other group filled with DPS classes. Doesn't take an army, pal.

I'm not your pal, buddy.

I don't know what kind of brokedick shitbirds you grouped with in hate, but a charmed cleric didn't make or break getting the exp in any groups I was in. Generally the melees/rogues group stole all the exp.

work more with solid evidence to disprove that the system is currently incorrect.

As it's been stated these changes are being made with little or purely anecdotal evidence. A dev finding some retards hyperbole on allakhazam is not proof of anything, yet alone proof that a nerf was justified. But here we are.

So the burden of proof is now on us? Where is the 'evidence' that this is how classic was? That's right, there is none.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Throb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So the burden of proof is now on us? Where is the 'evidence' that this is how classic was? That's right, there is none.

The burden of proof is ABSOLUTELY on you. The devs do their work (for free mind you), if you don't like it, either pony up the proof yourself, or leave the server. Otherwise, get off your soap box.

[Ruinous]

Originally Posted by Throb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So the burden of proof is now on us? Where is the 'evidence' that this is how classic was? That's right, there is none.

Grats, it's not your fucking server. So yes, the burden IS on you cuntrag.

[redghosthunter]

Lets stay on topic... Enough of the personal attacks.

Find the proof.... its out there somewhere. All ive found so far from

HATE is Correct now on P1999... I guess playing a ENC when server first started was ... the golden age [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Hate gets Reduced- AFTER SoV . Notice the comment about ENCs..... Near to instant death .. from hate.

Faction --- Staff +1

------------------------------
January 9, 2001 3:00 am
------------------------------

*NPC AI - Hate*

We've made a number of changes to NPC AI, specifically to the section
dealing with target-selection, or what's commonly referred to as
"Hate". It is not so much that NPCs react differently to hate now than
before, but that we've changed the way that hate is awarded.

--- We reduced the amount of hate that can be caused by a proc. Due to
the high proc rates at upper levels, the amount of hate generated from
procs, and the spells that were selected for those procs, made keeping
the attention of the creature much too easy a task for the tank.
Simply, it nearly eliminated the challenge of keeping a foes attention
at levels above 50.

--- We've capped the amount of hate that can be awarded to most
casters, specifically for debuff-type spells like the Malo and Tash
series. The hate calculation for these spells takes into account the
number of hitpoints of the NPC and did not "play nice" with the
increased HP limit of Velious. It explains why Enchanters, for
instance, would complain that casting a Tash spell would lead to NEAR-INSTANT DEATH