If you believe in god, you're an idiot...

[bman8810]

Actually, considering the probability of life evolving on Earth, I really think that believing in God or nothing at all are both quite acceptable. What is concerning is the constant affirmation that both sides seek from each other.

Quite frankly, I don't give a fuck what you believe.

[Polixenes]

Originally Posted by bman8810 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually, considering the probability of life evolving on Earth, I really think that believing in God or nothing at all are both quite acceptable. What is concerning is the constant affirmation that both sides seek from each other.

Quite frankly, I don't give a fuck what you believe.

P(Life evolving on Earth) = 1
P(Omniscient deity created life on Earth) = 0

[bman8810]

Originally Posted by Polixenes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P(Life evolving on Earth) = 1
P(Omniscient deity created life on Earth) = 0

Going to refer to the first one as P(1) and second as P(2).

P(1) is only true de facto. However, I can see how you would think that P(1) = 1 when in fact P(1) = 1 (with how you described it) is actually P(1|Life did evolve on Earth) = 1.

Also, seeing as how you can neither prove or disprove the existence of a higher power creating life on Earth the probability of the second is actually unknown. Therefore, P(2) = x where x is an unknown dependent (primarily) on two things; does a higher power exist and would the higher power create life on Earth.

Seriously though, go talk to anyone with basic knowledge relative to life spontaneously generating. Next, whip up some probability calculations (granted, you have to assume a few things with one of the most important ones being rate of mutation.) What you will find is that the probability of it occurring is incredibly small.

Point being, just because religion X doesn't have beliefs that correctly align with scientific evidence doesn't mean that a higher power doesn't exist.

[Polixenes]

Originally Posted by bman8810 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Going to refer to the first one as P(1) and second as P(2).

P(1) is only true de facto. However, I can see how you would think that P(1) = 1 when in fact P(1) = 1 (with how you described it) is actually P(1|Life did evolve on Earth) = 1.

Also, seeing as how you can neither prove or disprove the existence of a higher power creating life on Earth the probability of the second is actually unknown. Therefore, P(2) = x where x is an unknown dependent (primarily) on two things; does a higher power exist and would the higher power create life on Earth.

Seriously though, go talk to anyone with basic knowledge relative to life spontaneously generating. Next, whip up some probability calculations (granted, you have to assume a few things with one of the most important ones being rate of mutation.) What you will find is that the probability of it occurring is incredibly small.

Point being, just because religion X doesn't have beliefs that correctly align with scientific evidence doesn't mean that a higher power doesn't exist.

Oh drat, you've gone all serious on me.

I used "P(Life evolving on Earth) = 1" because I'm using present tense. It happened and it's still happening. I'm not sure if you were disagreeing with me or not.

I'm aware someone concocted a formula involving P(planet being in the right location at the right time) etc., if that's what you are referring to, but that's just made up and so full of estimates the resulting answer is still unknown. For all we know, the spontaneous development of life, given certain common chemistry/environmental conditions, is inevitable.

[bman8810]

Originally Posted by Polixenes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh drat, you've gone all serious on me.

I used "P(Life evolving on Earth) = 1" because I'm using present tense. It happened and it's still happening. I'm not sure if you were disagreeing with me or not.

I'm aware someone concocted a formula involving P(planet being in the right location at the right time) etc., if that's what you are referring to, but that's just made up and so full of estimates the resulting answer is still unknown. For all we know, the spontaneous development of life, given certain common chemistry/environmental conditions, is inevitable.

But the problem with your logic is that "P(Life evolving on Earth) = 1" is only correct if a higher power didn't create life on Earth (I'm not arguing against evolution here btw, just the spontaneous generation of life.) As such, seeing as how we can't know the second part for sure we can't be certain about the first one, can we?

As far as knowing whether the development of life is inevitable... I'm pretty sure you are serious and the answer is no. Life is not inevitable, at least not so far as life forms such as ourselves. It takes a very specific set of conditions (far from "common chemistry/environmental conditions") in order for life to occur. Is it possible? Surely. Is it the way things happened? Who knows, I certainly don't know for sure.

I feel like the "life is not inevitable" thing is slightly misleading. It's kind of like the monkeys writing Shakespeare thing; i.e. given enough time anything is possible.

As far as agreeing/disagreeing? I'm just trying to point out the futility in arguing for one side or the other.