40 day raid ban

[Detoxx]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I keep repeating "if you don't want to be suspended, don't join guild that break the rules", and people keep coming back with "well it's apples and oranges, because Anonymous doesn't try to break the rules."

That is exactly what I'm saying! Anonymous isn't missing out on Tormax and similar A/A targets because we don't break the rules, we're missing out because we don't have enough people on at the right times to take those targets. But if we had enough, we absolutely could take them without breaking the rules, as could any guild of the appropriate size.

No one has to break the rules. Everytime a guild does so their leadership is making a calculated decision to break the rules in order to have a better chance at mob X (or to get back at another guild for taking mob X). But they don't have to make those choices, and if they didn't (as plenty of other guilds somehow manage to do) they wouldn't eat suspensions.

This isn't rocket science.

That is just completely false. If KT spawned at 6pm est on a Sunday and you wanted to compete in it and kill it you absolutely could. Does that mean you dont risk making a mistake during this time? No. Because no one is perfect. If you think that you could flawlessly kill any target you ever wanted to but dont just because you dont have the force, you are sadly mistaken.

[Detoxx]

You all have this twisted reality that we just cheat and break rules on purpose. The problem is never breaking the rule, the problem is making it right after. A petition for a train would never happen if the offending guild agrees they made a mistake and concede the mob.

[beargryllz]

Originally Posted by Legday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except for the Aw 30 day where they conceded it and still got petitioned by dumdums.

See this is the part I don't get. That particular day there were like 5 or 6 guilds trying to do ToV. 1 mob is about to go down and AW trains the raid.

That's cool, they'll just concede. But it's kinda not cool. It's kinda bullshit because it was only by extreme fortune that the trained raid could recover and get another shot at it

Otherwise, why wouldn't I just make a fresh guild with 3 members in it to train ToV entrance and be like "lol concede" and watch my friends kill the dragon after the wipe is done?

[Bones]

Originally Posted by Legday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can understand if you guys were salty because it actually cost you the mob but it didn't. You ended up getting it. I'm not saying it's a rule that you can only petition if you lost the mob or anything, it's just a weird thing to get bent out of shape about. Given that it should have been very obvious that Awakened didn't do it on purpose because there was nothing to gain from it and it actually hurt them since they had to concede Fesh too. This might seem crazy but 99% of the trains you see from A/A are just people messing up by accident. We suck sometimes.

exactly

[Llodd]

Oh all you a/a ppl proclaiming shady shit doesn't happen and it's all unintentional is hilarious.

And then calling out casuals for being clueless about the raid scene. . Priceless =P

[xzhaa]

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh all you a/a ppl proclaiming shady shit doesn't happen and it's all unintentional is hilarious.

And then calling out casuals for being clueless about the raid scene. . Priceless =P

clearly you are of those clueless people

[HalflingWarrior]

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh all you a/a ppl proclaiming shady shit doesn't happen and it's all unintentional is hilarious.

And then calling out casuals for being clueless about the raid scene. . Priceless =P

Prove it, pal!

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Detoxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is just completely false. If KT spawned at 6pm est on a Sunday and you wanted to compete in it and kill it you absolutely could. Does that mean you dont risk making a mistake during this time? No. Because no one is perfect. If you think that you could flawlessly kill any target you ever wanted to but dont just because you dont have the force, you are sadly mistaken.

I'm pretty sure that even on 6pm EST on a Sunday we don't can't get enough people there fast enough. I could be wrong (I'm not an officer or anything), but either way what Anon can or can't do really isn't the point.

As for killing things "flawlessly" and "without mistakes", of course not: we make mistakes on Plane of Air mobs, I highly doubt we could do Tormax or Yelinak or whoever without making some mistakes. But making mistakes is not the same as breaking the rules.

The point is, you and a few others seem to think it's impossible to raid on P99 without breaking the rules, but it's not. It's 100% possible. The staff didn't create these rules as some kind of evil Machivalean trap, and this 15+ year old game is not so hard that you have to cheat to win it.

Play by the rules, or eat suspensions, it's a simple choice.

[Tupakk]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm pretty sure that even on 6pm EST on a Sunday we don't can't get enough people there fast enough. I could be wrong (I'm not an officer or anything), but either way what Anon can or can't do really isn't the point.

As for killing things "flawlessly" and "without mistakes", of course not: we make mistakes on Plane of Air mobs, I highly doubt we could do Tormax or Yelinak or whoever without making some mistakes. But making mistakes is not the same as breaking the rules.

The point is, you and a few others seem to think it's impossible to raid on P99 without breaking the rules, but it's not. It's 100% possible. The staff didn't create these rules as some kind of evil Machivalean trap, and this 15+ year old game is not so hard that you have to cheat to win it.

Play by the rules, or eat suspensions, it's a simple choice.

When I said take chances this is an example of y’all not. I didn’t mean go to Ntov and cheat 2 win. I meant go and compete and race and all that jazz. You talk about Sky mobs but if you fuck that up you wipe yourself. Consider this everytime you wipe your guild doing something “petiton” yourself and this you will see how hard it is not to “cheat”.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Honestly, I like you, and your posts

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] (and likewise)

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but here you have no idea what you're talking about. Making mistakes is breaking the rules. Any experience in the raid scene would make it obvious that the rules are subjective and completely at the whim of the guys upstairs. None of it usually makes any sense, fortunately that is the one constant. Awakened isn't gone, because of some technicality. It is gone because of poor leadership decisions that lead to the subjective rules being enforced. That is the reality of this server, and that's why we all need to stop pretending there is any type of real competition going on.

Originally Posted by Tupakk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When I said take chances this is an example of y’all not. I didn’t mean go to Ntov and cheat 2 win. I meant go and compete and race and all that jazz. You talk about Sky mobs but if you fuck that up you wipe yourself. Consider this everytime you wipe your guild doing something “petiton” yourself and this you will see how hard it is not to “cheat”.

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is gone because of poor leadership decisions

This is the crux of it to me. Do I have experience competing for Yelinak? Nope. Am I the master of P99 raid rules? Far from it.

But I don't need any of that to know that people have a choice about how they run their guild. They can make efforts to not break the rules, including doing as much as possible to make sure "accidents" don't happen, and then follow the rules for correcting mistakes on the rare occasions that accidents do happen ...

... or they can try their hardest to win every competition, break the rules in the process, and get suspended.

You can (very easily) convince me that I'm not an experienced raider, but you can't convince me that the rules here are so complex, so convoluted, and so hard-to-understand that it is impossible for a guild to compete for top content without breaking those rules.

If you believe that you're essentially saying that Rogean and Sirken are so stupid they made the server rules impossible to follow, and I don't think they're that stupid.