Shaman melee damage

[loramin]

You have it correct. I haven't leveled my Shaman up through those levels in years, but I recently leveled up a Ranger and asked basically the same question, only to have several people confirm the caps:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=285377

Really though, as a Shaman if you're relying on melee damage there's a very good chance you're doing it wrong.

[Tuurin]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have it correct. I haven't leveled my Shaman up through those levels in years, but I recently leveled up a Ranger and asked basically the same question, only to have several people confirm the caps:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=285377

Really though, as a Shaman if you're relying on melee damage there's a very good chance you're doing it wrong.

Yeah, I know about that thread- I actually answered your question on that thread and gave you that link lol. What I'm really wanting to know is if anyone has confirmed that the damage cap is class specific due to some kind of "recent patch".

Also, as a level 21 troll shaman with a Ikky bp and a PWC, meleeing is absolutely doing it right. What am I going to do, root/dot/nuke and med for 5 minutes after every fight? I can melee blues non-stop and not really lose health. Of course eventually with canni/pet/better dots I can potentially do better casting than meleeing, but with slows, heals and decent weapons shaman melee is not at all "doing it wrong."

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Tuurin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, I know about that thread- I actually answered your question on that thread and gave you that link lol. What I'm really wanting to know is if anyone has confirmed that the damage cap is class specific due to some kind of "recent patch".

Also, as a level 21 troll shaman with a Ikky bp and a PWC, meleeing is absolutely doing it right. What am I going to do, root/dot/nuke and med for 5 minutes after every fight? I can melee blues non-stop and not really lose health. Of course eventually with canni/pet/better dots I can potentially do better casting than meleeing, but with slows, heals and decent weapons shaman melee is not at all "doing it wrong."

Oh heh, sorry didn't notice your name.

However, I think you missed my point. I never said "shaman meleeing is a bad idea". On the contrary, shaman have three core playstyles, and that's one of them:

• tank with self
• tank with pet
• root/rot

What I said was:

relying on melee damage [=] a very good chance you're doing it wrong

I stand by that statement. Even with a PWC, try measuring how much melee damage you do over the course of a fight. Now measure how much damage your pet (ie. your best "DoT") does. Now measure how much DoT damage you do.

The exact numbers will vary by gear and level, but even so I can all but guarantee that most of the time your melee damage will be the lowest of the three. Why? Because I did the math with a BSH ... back before the proc nerf ... and even with that (equivalent of an) extra JBB hit per fight, melee still was the lowest of the three for me.

Melee might be 20% of your overall damage, and that's certainly not trivial, but if you switch to a weapon with higher damage/lower delay to account for the damage cap, you'll only get 20% of that difference as an increase to your overall DPS ... and in practice the difference between any two Shaman leveling weapons really won't be all that much.

So look, Shaman melee damage isn't meaningless, and I'm not saying Shaman shouldn't melee. I'm just saying we do (relatively) crap for damage when we hit things with our big stick/spear, and that's to be expected as we're worse at meleeing than every class except Clerics, Druids, and Int casters [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[skarlorn]

Kraddoc soloed Nagy with. Melee he made a video

[xaxis]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm just saying we do (relatively) crap for damage when we hit things with our big stick/spear, and that's to be expected as we're worse at meleeing than every class except Clerics, Druids, and Int casters [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right but we also face tank better than all of those, and probably better than Rangers too, while also not having the mana efficiency or tactical abilities of most of those classes. We can't quad kite, can't charm, can't fear kite, expensive ass DD's, so while I agree that shaman probably shouldn't melee at a certain point, I would argue that a lot of your levels are going to be spent meleeing out of necessity/efficiency .

[loramin]

Originally Posted by xaxis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right but we also face tank better than all of those, and probably better than Rangers too, while also not having the mana efficiency or tactical abilities of most of those classes. We can't quad kite, can't charm, can't fear kite, expensive ass DD's, so while I agree that shaman probably shouldn't melee at a certain point, I would argue that a lot of your levels are going to be spent meleeing out of necessity/efficiency .

Agreed; again, I failed to communicate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Meleeing (ie. tanking) and doing melee damage are two different things. We're great at the former (though maybe not better than a Ranger) ... but we're lousy at the latter.

Tanking is about taking hits, not giving them. In other words, it's about giving the mob something to do so it doesn't kill your pet or run around wasting your DoTs (and at high levels it's because you have no choice after being summoned).

None of that requires doing melee damage: between slows, roots, and DoTs (and Flash of Light [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]) Shaman can easily tank a mob without ever landing a single melee hit. Melee damage is just "well I'm already standing next to this mob anyway, I might as well hit the auto attack button to throw a few extra DPS in".

Again, nothing wrong with that, it's just that the "might as well" damage will normally be less than either your pet damage or your DoT damage. If it amounts to say 20% (exact % varies by level/gear) of your damage then I just don't think it makes sense to spend a lot of time/energy trying to optimize that damage, because all that effort only optimizes 20% of your DPS output. If it takes you ten hours to acquire a haste belt/better weapon, that belt/weapon has to add damage equal to 50 hours of melee damage without it (10 hours / 20%), or else you would have been better off just XPing with your old gear.

P.S. That doesn't mean a Shaman should never upgrade their melee weapon. If they can get a new weapon that adds even a small amount of DPS at level 20 and then they never look for a new weapon again, even that small DPS increase will likely be justified over the course of 40 levels. Shaman can even make a few of those "justified" upgrades as they level because they can do so without spending a lot of time/energy on them. It's stuff like getting a haste belt, or getting a slightly more optimal weapon when you already have a PWC, that I think isn't worth the trouble.

[xaxis]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's stuff like getting a haste belt, or getting a slightly more optimal weapon when you already have a PWC, that I think isn't worth the trouble.

I'm with you now, I can agree with all that ;D

[Kaibutsu]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

None of that requires doing melee damage: between slows, roots, and DoTs (and Flash of Light [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]) Shaman can easily tank a mob without ever landing a single melee hit. Melee damage is just "well I'm already standing next to this mob anyway, I might as well hit the auto attack button to throw a few extra DPS in".

This made me laugh more than I care to admit. It's been a rough day, thanks for the laugh. Well played.