Stormfeather -- Policy Incorrect?

[Menden]

For the most part, a camp is yours as long as you have presence at that camp. If you die, go LD or leave the zone you can lose the camp if another player calls you on it. SF, AC, Lucan are no exceptions.

Staying awake for the duration of SF spawn is dumb and bad for your health, think about it.

Players can absolutely go AFK while camping SF, but they must engage within a reasonable amount of time. I would say 5ish minutes for this encounter. This mob is soloable so no real force is needed. With that, if Player A was camping SF, SF pops, Player A is throwing some buffs on and it takes 5 minutes and 10 seconds to do this(plus med time), I wouldn't advise Player B to attack SF, that'd be a douche move. If SF pops and Player A attacks SF and obviously kiting(delaying), then use your best judgement. But if you are going to step in and nab someone's SFs, there's always a chance you will be suspended so don't cry to me, be damn well sure you are in the right because if that kiting player is trying to slow/snare/gain mana/whatever and you use this post as an excuse to attack SF, I will come down on you hard.

Also with SF, there's no PHs or guards to keep down. It's no different than AFKing between spawns for any other camp like Ass/sup, oot AC, frenzy, ect...

Responding to a CC is not a requirement, but it's a nice thing to do.

Originally Posted by JayDee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

These people also used to kite SF around for however long it took to find a buyer for loot rights.

Selling SF loot rights, this is a douche move, I will suspend you for it under PNP.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They actually had staff-enforced rules on live. If someone was camping X, and wouldn't give it up after they got their desired item (ie. not after they'd farmed ten copies of it over 20 hours) the GMs would intervene and force them to give the camp up to the next person on the list.

Many people aren't aware of this because of the general good etiquette of the population back then, athe lack of neckbeards monopolizing camps, and the variance between how different GMs handled things on different servers. However if you read the guidebooks written by Verant for GMs in that era stuff like that was clearly covered.

Originally Posted by Ciksharn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've watched people corpse 5+ rings in one session. You can swim offshore of the island and see a pile of naked bodies just under the waterline

Corpsing AC rings, We've started handling lore camps differently lately due to the abuse. Corpsing AC rings is a douche move, get your ring and pass the torch. I haven't seen any petitions lately complaining about AC abuse, the price is dropping also which is nice. If you are a player waiting for this camp and see someone corpsing a ring, let us know, be sure, don't waste our time. SOW pots are better anyway :P

Originally Posted by KENAK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Menden told me today that kiting/stalling non-raid mobs has a limit, in the range of 10 minutes or so. Another guide (Cylok? I'm bad with names) told me that someone can stall Lodi indefinitely if they'd like, so who knows I guess.

Great guy, by the way.

Delaying a kill(kiting), 5-10 minutes is fairly reasonable, it all depends on the situation. Like I said before, don't kite a mob around waiting for your raid force for more then 5-10 minutes if you get FTE, be ready to engage. And if you are watching someone else do this, be sure they are truly delaying, don't let the pixelfever get the best of you.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Camps I've run with a list have operated under one basic principle:

If you fail to maintain a presence in the zone (preferably main), you forfeit your spot on the camp. For a camp like Stormfeather, that would mean that nobody is on the list unless physically (both in zone and NOT afk) at the time that the camp is ready to be turned over.

Ie those that want to be on the list cannot be logged in elsewhere for any reason. Otherwise those willing to forfeit right to play in other capacity are hosed.

For a camp like SF that has 36hr spawn + chance to skip? Going afk to sleep or do whatever else is A-ok in my book ... as long as you are at keyboard and ready when it pops.

Unofficially speaking, AC camp, sure. If you are next at the list I would stay near by so the trade off can happen quickly. If the list keeper gets his spawn and leaves and you are not there, you can lose the camp. For SF, I find it dumb to have to stay in the zone for that long. But if you wish to keep your spot it's in your best interest to be there during the spawns.

The thing is, lists are really driven by the players, if you are the list keeper it's in your rights to tell people if they want on the list, they must stay in the zone.


Here's the thing folks, we want people to have fun, but there are lots of players who like to abuse what we say and what few rules we have out there. If we suspect you are lawyerquesting or being a dick, we have no issue suspending you for PNP. If you feel I'm not being fair, go speak to Llandris, Braknar or Sirken. Don't be a jerk to me, I'm really here to help you guys enjoy the game.

If you ever need help understanding how a camp in particular works, don't be afraid of posting in the petitions / exploits forums asking a question, I'm happy to work it out with you. But keep in mind, we don't have solid rules written down for specific camps because every situation is different, but we do state guidelines here and there.

[Tupakk]

Originally Posted by Menden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For the most part, a camp is yours as long as you have presence at that camp. If you die, go LD or leave the zone you can lose the camp if another player calls you on it. SF, AC, Lucan are no exceptions.

Staying awake for the duration of SF spawn is dumb and bad for your health, think about it.

Players can absolutely go AFK while camping SF, but they must engage within a reasonable amount of time. I would say 5ish minutes for this encounter. This mob is soloable so no real force is needed. With that, if Player A was camping SF, SF pops, Player A is throwing some buffs on and it takes 5 minutes and 10 seconds to do this(plus med time), I wouldn't advise Player B to attack SF, that'd be a douche move. If SF pops and Player A attacks SF and obviously kiting(delaying), then use your best judgement. But if you are going to step in and nab someone's SFs, there's always a chance you will be suspended so don't cry to me, be damn well sure you are in the right because if that kiting player is trying to slow/snare/gain mana/whatever and you use this post as an excuse to attack SF, I will come down on you hard.

Also with SF, there's no PHs or guards to keep down. It's no different than AFKing between spawns for any other camp like Ass/sup, oot AC, frenzy, ect...

Responding to a CC is not a requirement, but it's a nice thing to do.



Selling SF loot rights, this is a douche move, I will suspend you for it under PNP.





Corpsing AC rings, We've started handling lore camps differently lately due to the abuse. Corpsing AC rings is a douche move, get your ring and pass the torch. I haven't seen any petitions lately complaining about AC abuse, the price is dropping also which is nice. If you are a player waiting for this camp and see someone corpsing a ring, let us know, be sure, don't waste our time. SOW pots are better anyway :P



Delaying a kill(kiting), 5-10 minutes is fairly reasonable, it all depends on the situation. Like I said before, don't kite a mob around waiting for your raid force for more then 5-10 minutes if you get FTE, be ready to engage. And if you are watching someone else do this, be sure they are truly delaying, don't let the pixelfever get the best of you.



Unofficially speaking, AC camp, sure. If you are next at the list I would stay near by so the trade off can happen quickly. If the list keeper gets his spawn and leaves and you are not there, you can lose the camp. For SF, I find it dumb to have to stay in the zone for that long. But if you wish to keep your spot it's in your best interest to be there during the spawns.

The thing is, lists are really driven by the players, if you are the list keeper it's in your rights to tell people if they want on the list, they must stay in the zone.


Here's the thing folks, we want people to have fun, but there are lots of players who like to abuse what we say and what few rules we have out there. If we suspect you are lawyerquesting or being a dick, we have no issue suspending you for PNP. If you feel I'm not being fair, go speak to Llandris, Braknar or Sirken. Don't be a jerk to me, I'm really here to help you guys enjoy the game.

If you ever need help understanding how a camp in particular works, don't be afraid of posting in the petitions / exploits forums asking a question, I'm happy to work it out with you. But keep in mind, we don't have solid rules written down for specific camps because every situation is different, but we do state guidelines here and there.

Ummm I don’t have to time to camp a potential 72hr spawn so when I finally get to this quest I will pay for it. You can’t penalize someone for trying to make a dime for waiting and camping something that is a good 70% of how the p99 economy works.

I don’t like to disagree with y’all but on this one I would fight for my seller til the cows came home if someone wanted to play the petiton game cause I looted the corpse that I paid for.

Sorry

[Nixtar]

Originally Posted by Tupakk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ummm I don’t have to time to camp a potential 72hr spawn so when I finally get to this quest I will pay for it. You can’t penalize someone for trying to make a dime for waiting and camping something that is a good 70% of how the p99 economy works.

I don’t like to disagree with y’all but on this one I would fight for my seller til the cows came home if someone wanted to play the petiton game cause I looted the corpse that I paid for.

Sorry

That would be a very one sided fight though.

Also, I don't have the money for this kind of camp. Having people sitting around it perma-camped means I can't enjoy content because the fat cat squad sells/buys MQ/loot rights among themselves.

[Tupakk]

Originally Posted by Nixtar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That would be a very one sided fight though.

Also, I don't have the money for this kind of camp. Having people sitting around it perma-camped means I can't enjoy content because the fat cat squad sells/buys MQ/loot rights among themselves.

Not to be rude but sorry get more money. You might want to sit at a camp for 72 hours but I don’t.

You’ve been here for 3 years if you haven’t accquired enough plat to pay for a time sink camp maybe you should rethink how you make plat.

I for one would rather pay for this camp versus doing it because of how long it takes to get the mob to spawn.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Tupakk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not to be rude but sorry get more money. You might want to sit at a camp for 72 hours but I don’t.

You’ve been here for 3 years if you haven’t accquired enough plat to pay for a time sink camp maybe you should rethink how you make plat.

I for one would rather pay for this camp versus doing it because of how long it takes to get the mob to spawn.

Acquiring plat is only really relevant if you want to spend plat, which from Nixtar's previous post appears not to be the case. He seems interested in doing the camps himself, and seems frustrated that players can circumvent 'no drop' restrictions through MQ/loot rights.

[Tupakk]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Acquiring plat is only really relevant if you want to spend plat, which from Nixtar's previous post appears not to be the case. He seems interested in doing the camps himself, and seems frustrated that players can circumvent 'no drop' restrictions through MQ/loot rights.

That’s classic. If he wants the camp then he will have to wait for it to open and he can get it.

If he chooses to be a little petiton bitch and QQ because I paid for it then he will get my full wrath.

[paulgiamatti]

I think what Menden is referring to is the douchebags who kill SF and then try to auction off the loot rights in /ooc to the highest bidder, which would potentially end in a rotted map piece if they don't find a buyer. That shit should absolutely be punished. Having a prearranged deal set up where you pay to come and loot the map piece and no one's the wiser should be kosher.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Tupakk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That’s classic. If he wants the camp then he will have to wait for it to open and he can get it.

If he chooses to be a little petiton bitch and QQ because I paid for it then he will get my full wrath.

Don't you think that you're having it both ways by suggesting it is classic to camp the piece, but also that petitioning makes him a little bitch?

I never heard back from a petition during classic, but I believe that was a time zone issue. For people who had play times matching CSR, I'm pretty sure petitioning was a thing?

[Puluin]

Originally Posted by Tupakk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That’s classic. If he wants the camp then he will have to wait for it to open and he can get it.

If he chooses to be a little petiton bitch and QQ because I paid for it then he will get my full wrath.

I normally don't chime in on stuff like this, but seriously tupakk, you are the little bitch by not rightfully earning what you loot. If you want stormfeather you better be willing to put in the effort for it. Paying for instant gratification is the same as acting like a little self entitled kid.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by JayDee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

though I do not see that changing anytime soon unless you make that a sticky or really follow through with some suspensions. Easy to claim ignorance when it's one line in a sea of posts.

I've been trying to archive relevant staff responses on the wiki on this page: http://wiki.project1999.com/Rulings. It's a work in progress, and I doubt anyone knows to check it since I haven't publicized it at all, but hopefully it's a small step toward solving the more general problem that you raised (a staff member says something here and then it gets lost/forgotten because no one knows about it).