Heard that velious will be the last expansion, is this true?

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Massive Marc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly. I can't think of one time in the last 10 years, when I'm like:

"I can't wait to go retrieve my corpse. It's the highlight of my night. It so very challenging and rewarding"

You are looking at corpse retrieval the wrong way. A CR is:
1) A crappy experience that takes way too long to be over and involves jumping through too many hoops.
2) An experience that when avoided by some miracle (gogo CC!, joining the purple CH club, etc.), makes that miracle THAT much more spectacular.

I'm not going to argue that the CR sucks, but if you keep pulling the bad apples off of the tree, eventually you won't even have good ones left to eat.

[Massive Marc]

Originally Posted by yorumi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok it's a timesink. So lets remove slow travel, make everything sold on merchants be 1cp, remove exp, make every monster have 100% chance to drop anything on it's loot table, and make everything soloable because finding a group can suck. I'm not sure I'd specifically call corpse retrieval something I like, but a game without pain is a very very very boring game.

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are looking at corpse retrieval the wrong way. A CR is:
1) A crappy experience that takes way too long to be over and involves jumping through too many hoops.
2) An experience that when avoided by some miracle (gogo CC!, joining the purple CH club, etc.), makes that miracle THAT much more spectacular.

I'm not going to argue that the CR sucks, but if you keep pulling the bad apples off of the tree, eventually you won't even have good ones left to eat.

This slippery slope bullshit is exactly that... bullshit.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Massive Marc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This slippery slope bullshit is exactly that... bullshit.

No. Its not. The majority of people play P99 to return to times when things were difficult. If they wanted a game where the CR was easy, they'd go play WoW. It truely is the little things that ARE difficult that make classic Everquest the MMO that other MMOs just cannot live up to.

[Massive Marc]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No. Its not. The majority of people play P99 to return to times when things were difficult. If they wanted a game where the CR was easy, they'd go play WoW. It truely is the little things that ARE difficult that make classic Everquest the MMO that other MMOs just cannot live up to.

Yah, because corpse retrieval is the ground breaking deal maker for people to play Everquest. That's why it was voted OUT on Fippy, right ?

GTFO.

[Kraftwerk]

Originally Posted by Massive Marc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yah, because corpse retrieval is the ground breaking deal maker for people to play Everquest. That's why it was voted OUT on Fippy, right ?

GTFO.

The people on Fippy also cried to the GMs and had three Lady Vox spawned, one for each raid. I wouldn't use them as one of your references.

[One Tin Soldier]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are looking at corpse retrieval the wrong way. A CR is:
1) A crappy experience that takes way too long to be over and involves jumping through too many hoops.
2) An experience that when avoided by some miracle (gogo CC!, joining the purple CH club, etc.), makes that miracle THAT much more spectacular.

I'm not going to argue that the CR sucks, but if you keep pulling the bad apples off of the tree, eventually you won't even have good ones left to eat.

I agree.

Corpse retrieval sucks because it's supposed to suck. Nobody likes doing corpse runs and that's the whole point.

Imagine that the devs caved in to people who don't want CR's or experience loss or any other unpleasantness. What would the game be like? Your group gets wiped and you respawn next to your bodies with a 10 minute immunty and no experience loss so you can loot up and get rebuffed and back into the fighting with no hassle, wouldn't that be great?

No, I don't think it would be. When a fight is touch and go there would be no tension or excitement or fear. There would be no rush of relief when you do pull your butts out of the fire. If you die it would be /shrug and right back at it.

I mean, sure, it would be more convenient. But it would also make the game incredably boring. Let's be honest here, the only real excitement when you are grinding out experience comes in those moments when things are going wrong and then it's only exciting because dying is unpleasant. Take that away and what's left? They might as well but in a /level command to let us all jump to max level and then we could all quit and they could shut down the server.

[Massive Marc]

Originally Posted by One Tin Soldier [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree.

Corpse retrieval sucks because it's supposed to suck. Nobody likes doing corpse runs and that's the whole point.

Imagine that the devs caved in to people who don't want CR's or experience loss or any other unpleasantness. What would the game be like? Your group gets wiped and you respawn next to your bodies with a 10 minute immunty and no experience loss so you can loot up and get rebuffed and back into the fighting with no hassle, wouldn't that be great?

No, I don't think it would be. When a fight is touch and go there would be no tension or excitement or fear. There would be no rush of relief when you do pull your butts out of the fire. If you die it would be /shrug and right back at it.

I mean, sure, it would be more convenient. But it would also make the game incredably boring. Let's be honest here, the only real excitement when you are grinding out experience comes in those moments when things are going wrong and then it's only exciting because dying is unpleasant. Take that away and what's left? They might as well but in a /level command to let us all jump to max level and then we could all quit and they could shut down the server.

They have a name for that. It's called: Bad Game Design.

ROFL, I can't... I don't believe CR is the reason people come to play Everquest, or that it even enters in to their mind. I also disagree that the only excitement involved in grinding exp is, the chance you might have to do a hour long corpse run. The excitement for ME, is a chance at loot, being able to learn my character better, enjoying the group experience. Basically everything BUT corpse runs.

[yorumi]

Originally Posted by Massive Marc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They have a name for that. It's called: Bad Game Design.

ROFL, I can't... I don't believe CR is the reason people come to play Everquest, or that it even enters in to their mind. I also disagree that the only excitement involved in grinding exp is, the chance you might have to do a hour long corpse run. The excitement for ME, is a chance at loot, being able to learn my character better, enjoying the group experience. Basically everything BUT corpse runs.

Well you're totally wrong, there are people who think about corpse runs and I'm one of them. There's a huge difference between "oh no I died guess I'm not running around there anymore" and "oh shit I might lose my corpse and be freaken screwed." I like that aspect of the game, it added real danger to zones. You may not like it but you are not everyone stop thinking you are.

you mixing apples and oranges here.
No one said remove Xp penalty on death or add 10 min Immune timer, or re-spawn right outside where you killed.
The talk was about CR ONLY - which is dumb.
You can argue all you want that it adds difficulty to the game, but what it adds in reality is a time-sink full of frustration

If the argument is that it's a timesink then you can use that argument for any and every time sink. Which is what most if not all of the current mmos do. This is why mmos are the way they are "it's a time sink remove it" is repeated over and over and over and we get the current generation of easy mode mmos, think about how pathetic mmos are that by comparison eq is hard. If someone can come up with no better argument for removing something than "its a time sink" then you have no foundation to stand on.

[beaon]

Originally Posted by yorumi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well you're totally wrong, there are people who think about corpse runs and I'm one of them. There's a huge difference between "oh no I died guess I'm not running around there anymore" and "oh shit I might lose my corpse and be freaken screwed." I like that aspect of the game, it added real danger to zones. You may not like it but you are not everyone stop thinking you are.



If the argument is that it's a timesink then you can use that argument for any and every time sink. Which is what most if not all of the current mmos do. This is why mmos are the way they are "it's a time sink remove it" is repeated over and over and over and we get the current generation of easy mode mmos, think about how pathetic mmos are that by comparison eq is hard. If someone can come up with no better argument for removing something than "its a time sink" then you have no foundation to stand on.

@Massive Mark
Look some people think playing grand turismo is dumb. But thats a subjective preference, devoid of objective fact. Your preference on CR's is the same. Making CR's go away is not classic, its a different game. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Whether or not it's good or bad game design is up to debate.

The good new is that you are not the sole arbiter of what is and is not good game design.

[Massive Marc]

Originally Posted by beaon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

@Massive Mark
Look some people think playing grand turismo is dumb. But thats a subjective preference, devoid of objective fact. Your preference on CR's is the same. Making CR's go away is not classic, its a different game. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Whether or not it's good or bad game design is up to debate.

The good new is that you are not the sole arbiter of what is and is not good game design.

When the cons outweigh the pros , it's bad game design, which SOE was notorious for.