Activists Hold Funeral For Frozen Chicken In Store

[Barkingturtle]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Since you did not mention the health effects of eating meat anywhere in that long post I'm going to assume you don't have anything.

Anyway, I think you are conflating industrial agriculture with meat consumption. I grew up in Iowa. On the way to the nearest city I would drive by one farmer who raised cows in their own feces.

I lived in Des Moines for seven years. It's the only actual city in Iowa, and the whole place smells like boiled pig flesh for the entire month of August. Who do you think you're kidding? And of course they don't put feedlots on highways. They grow corn in highly-trafficked areas because it's a much better visual. Of course the vast majority of corn in Iowa is grown to feed industrial livestock operations elsewhere. So it's all connected and it's only our myopia which prevents from seeing that.

But you want a health-related fact? I mean, your request was completely scatter-shot so I just posted some devastating environmental facts but uh, let's talk heart disease. Let's talk clogged arteries. This happens due to the accumulation of cholesterol. This kind of cholesterol is only contained in the cell-walls of animals. Nowhere else. Humans have no way to metabolize it, so it leeches into our bloodstream and eventually collects in our hearts. It contributes to a condition that kills us MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE and it only gets in our bodies by consuming animal products. If we are talking nutrition, shouldn't we start by eliminating things that kill us? Not convinced consuming animal products is a driver of heart disease. Well, wanna talk about cancer--the number two killer of our people? I mean, everyone knows the World Health Organization has classified bacon as a carcinogen on the same level as cigarettes, right? Right?

Anyway, I think it's disingenuous in 2017 to claim the consumption of animal products is in any way part of a healthy lifestyle, either for yourself or the planet. We know better, but we are all simply struggling to make choices we can live with, some motivated by ethics, some motivated by convenience, some by pleasure, some by fear of social rejection. I simply believe we are capable of evolving to do much, much better, because I see it happening. Namasté.

[Lojik]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But you want a health-related fact? I mean, your request was completely scatter-shot so I just posted some devastating environmental facts but uh, let's talk heart disease. Let's talk clogged arteries. This happens due to the accumulation of cholesterol. This kind of cholesterol is only contained in the cell-walls of animals. Nowhere else. Humans have no way to metabolize it, so it leeches into our bloodstream and eventually collects in our hearts. It contributes to a condition that kills us MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE and it only gets in our bodies by consuming animal products. If we are talking nutrition, shouldn't we start by eliminating things that kill us? Not convinced consuming animal products is a driver of heart disease. Well, wanna talk about cancer--the number two killer of our people? I mean, everyone knows the World Health Organization has classified bacon as a carcinogen on the same level as cigarettes, right? Right?

Anyway, I think it's disingenuous in 2017 to claim the consumption of animal products is in any way part of a healthy lifestyle, either for yourself or the planet. We know better, but we are all simply struggling to make choices we can live with, some motivated by ethics, some motivated by convenience, some by pleasure, some by fear of social rejection. I simply believe we are capable of evolving to do much, much better, because I see it happening. Namasté.

Isn't bacon a high risk carcinogen because of the nitrates to preserve it, not because of the fact that it's meat? Also, there seems to be a much bigger correlation between cancers and heart disease with sugar consumption as opposed to meat consumption. Since the FDA tried to push the whole low fat craze in the late 70's early 80's obesity has skyrocketed and (if I'm remembering correctly) heart disease has as well. Even though cholesterol is found in animal parts or byproducts, sugar and sugar substitutes mess with our bodies system and we end up absorbing more cholesterol if we eat more sugar. Again, nutrition science is a very young science and I think we need to be careful making blanket statements like eating any sort of meat is bad. We need better studies and a lot more data before we can put forth anything conclusive. Is the way we go about it nowadays morally wrong? Probably. Is it bad for the environment? Most likely. Is eating a lot of meat bad? Again, probably. Is eating any meat only detrimental to your health? Hard to say but probably not.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But you want a health-related fact? I mean, your request was completely scatter-shot so I just posted some devastating environmental facts but uh, let's talk heart disease. Let's talk clogged arteries. This happens due to the accumulation of cholesterol. This kind of cholesterol is only contained in the cell-walls of animals. Nowhere else. Humans have no way to metabolize it, so it leeches into our bloodstream and eventually collects in our hearts. It contributes to a condition that kills us MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE and it only gets in our bodies by consuming animal products. If we are talking nutrition, shouldn't we start by eliminating things that kill us? Not convinced consuming animal products is a driver of heart disease. Well, wanna talk about cancer--the number two killer of our people? I mean, everyone knows the World Health Organization has classified bacon as a carcinogen on the same level as cigarettes, right? Right?

There are no facts here, so I will simply argue against this paragraph I found from PETA:

Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn, one of the world’s most respected nutrition experts, has been able to make patients who were suffering from clogged arteries virtually “heart-attack proof” by putting them on healthy vegetarian diets and getting their cholesterol levels down below 150. The average vegan cholesterol level is about 146, while the average vegetarian cholesterol level is 177. And the average meat-eater’s cholesterol level is 194. Another nutritionist, Dr. Charles Attwood, points out just how strange it is that more is not done in light of this information: If people were being run down by trucks at the same rate that they’re dying from heart attacks induced by diets high in meat, eggs, and dairy products, drastic steps would be taken.

I find all of these correlation studies to be bullshit, but the ones that have been done indicate that 160-240 is the optimum range for total cholesterol. For example, in the Japan Lipid Study found effectively no difference in mortality between cohorts under 220.

Furthermore, I've read Esselstyn's papers and they are full of shit. He has a complete intervention that includes things like exercise and stopping smoking.

Anyway, I think it's disingenuous in 2017 to claim the consumption of animal products is in any way part of a healthy lifestyle, either for yourself or the planet.

You are making tons of unsubstantiated claims and appeals to emotion. I'm posting facts that say you are wrong. Which one of us is being disingenuous again?