Why agnarr will not kill p99...

[nhdjoseywales]

Originally Posted by Spyder73 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://www.everquest.com/krono
Your argument is hinging on "already exists" I am assuming. That's why P99 actively polices RMTing and routinely bans players who participate in RMTing. DB actually has the balls to put an option to buy Krono for $424.99 - Please tell me how this is not pay to win? I am all ears



Because they literally cost money to buy? In a game where gaining XP is basically the only goal I am confused as to why you think this is not a big deal.

I could go to Everquest.com/krono right now - spend $424.99 - and without ever killing a mob be in BiS droppable armor and could even buy MQs and loot rights to true BiS gear and Epics that are only available for Krono because that's what the farmers covet and its how DB is enabling RMT. Kronos are available for purchase for real life money. So if this isn't pay-2-win..... ?

The same argument can be made about in game plat. It shouldn't exist because you can go to x site and buy it for real money. Again, Krono is literally just another form of currency and doesn't enable anything that wasn't already happening. If Krono or plat didn't exist people would just buy the items directly from whoever for real cash. Nothing is ever going to change the concept of trading time spent in one activity for time someone else spent doing something else, your issue is with the concept of economics itself.

I really cant imagine you people find much happiness in life as much as you worry about someone spending cash on stuff. It must ruin all of your hobbies. Do you get bitter when your neighbor hires someone to add an addition to his house instead of growing the lumber and making the boards himself then assembling it all? I'm genuinely curious.

[Mistle]

Originally Posted by nhdjoseywales [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I really cant imagine you people find much happiness in life as much as you worry about someone spending cash on stuff. It must ruin all of your hobbies. Do you get bitter when your neighbor hires someone to add an addition to his house instead of growing the lumber and making the boards himself then assembling it all? I'm genuinely curious.

False analogy. A house addon is not a competiion nor is there a limited supply.

So many years of rmt/p2w apologists still using the same lame arguments. Just be honest and come clean - you prefer p2w and rmt enabled games.

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by nhdjoseywales [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The same argument can be made about in game plat. It shouldn't exist because you can go to x site and buy it for real money. Again, Krono is literally just another form of currency and doesn't enable anything that wasn't already happening. If Krono or plat didn't exist people would just buy the items directly from whoever for real cash. Nothing is ever going to change the concept of trading time spent in one activity for time someone else spent doing something else, your issue is with the concept of economics itself.

I really cant imagine you people find much happiness in life as much as you worry about someone spending cash on stuff. It must ruin all of your hobbies. Do you get bitter when your neighbor hires someone to add an addition to his house instead of growing the lumber and making the boards himself then assembling it all? I'm genuinely curious.

So much cringe! Not sure where to start...

For the record, I'm not taking a stand against Agnarr or Phinny or the pay to win models they have. They have a business to run and need to make money to do so and develop more servers, recruit more players, develop expansions, etc. It's a business model a lot of online games have used and are successful because of it. It doesn't work with me, but whatever.

To argue that taking issue with certain transactions is to take issue with the concept of economics itself is ridiculous. Drugs can be bought for money, as can sex. I don't agree with doing either, so am I taking an issue with economics itself? People are going to disagree that spending money for advancement / objects in a video cash shop is wrong and against their own personal gaming code of ethics. Who cares? Why come off all high and mighty above it?

I also don't understand how you tie P99 RMT transactions into Agnarr / Phinny cash shops. If someone breaks the law (buys plat from a shop), it doesn't mean you remove plat from the economy, you remove the RMT individuals. Daybreak does realize this happens and there could be a market on it they can capitalize from, and they took it. P99 can't legally endorse RMT due to Daybreak agreement I believe, but even if they could, I can't believe Nilbog would ever endorse that idea on his classic sandbox.

I believe people are critical of Daybreak cash shops because EQ began as a game where you slowly build yourself up and develop your character, you are meant to start in rags on your first toon. That is part of the reward to see high end items later in the game, not the beginning. P99 is here to recreate that nostalgia feeling of when the server first launched in 1999, Daybreak is looking to generate revenue by any means necessary, even if it means compromising some of the original game's integrity.

[Tuurin]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So much cringe! Not sure where to start...

For the record, I'm not taking a stand against Agnarr or Phinny or the pay to win models they have. They have a business to run and need to make money to do so and develop more servers, recruit more players, develop expansions, etc. It's a business model a lot of online games have used and are successful because of it. It doesn't work with me, but whatever.

To argue that taking issue with certain transactions is to take issue with the concept of economics itself is ridiculous. Drugs can be bought for money, as can sex. I don't agree with doing either, so am I taking an issue with economics itself? People are going to disagree that spending money for advancement / objects in a video cash shop is wrong and against their own personal gaming code of ethics. Who cares? Why come off all high and mighty above it?

I also don't understand how you tie P99 RMT transactions into Agnarr / Phinny cash shops. If someone breaks the law (buys plat from a shop), it doesn't mean you remove plat from the economy, you remove the RMT individuals. Daybreak does realize this happens and there could be a market on it they can capitalize from, and they took it. P99 can't legally endorse RMT due to Daybreak agreement I believe, but even if they could, I can't believe Nilbog would ever endorse that idea on his classic sandbox.

I believe people are critical of Daybreak cash shops because EQ began as a game where you slowly build yourself up and develop your character, you are meant to start in rags on your first toon. That is part of the reward to see high end items later in the game, not the beginning. P99 is here to recreate that nostalgia feeling of when the server first launched in 1999, Daybreak is looking to generate revenue by any means necessary, even if it means compromising some of the original game's integrity.

Just to be clear- RMT was extremely common and accepted in classic EQ. Heck I remember going on ebay and looking at scores of items, chars, and yes accounts that were for sale for USD back in the day. I always resisted the temptation to cash out on any chars/gear, but it was kinda fun to speculate.

To be clear I'm not an advocate of RMT and am very glad that P99 tries it's best to stop it, but I think we muddy the waters when we state that RMT is not a part of the classic experience, because it most definitely was.

I also tried and couldn't get into Agnarr- partly due to the Chrono/RMT dynamic but also just due to the overall lack of classic feel. When I started P99 I was floored by the nostalgia and general "old school" feel to what I was seeing. When I went to Agnarr though, it just felt like a different game than I remembered.

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by Tuurin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just to be clear- RMT was extremely common and accepted in classic EQ. Heck I remember going on ebay and looking at scores of items, chars, and yes accounts that were for sale for USD back in the day. I always resisted the temptation to cash out on any chars/gear, but it was kinda fun to speculate.

To be clear I'm not an advocate of RMT and am very glad that P99 tries it's best to stop it, but I think we muddy the waters when we state that RMT is not a part of the classic experience, because it most definitely was.

I also tried and couldn't get into Agnarr- partly due to the Chrono/RMT dynamic but also just due to the overall lack of classic feel. When I started P99 I was floored by the nostalgia and general "old school" feel to what I was seeing. When I went to Agnarr though, it just felt like a different game than I remembered.

Boxing was classic but P99 does not endorse. I believe Nilbog went as far to say that boxing is what ruined EQ. Think about it as you, the player, are in a virtual reality world where you need to make allies to succeed and defeat certain content. Big loophole to just have a bunch of computers linked up and take down what you want at your own leisure.

Also, RMT happened on live no doubt, but it was eventually enforced, may have even be written in original EULA that you couldn't profit off the game.

[Tuurin]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Boxing was classic but P99 does not endorse. I believe Nilbog went as far to say that boxing is what ruined EQ. Think about it as you, the player, are in a virtual reality world where you need to make allies to succeed and defeat certain content. Big loophole to just have a bunch of computers linked up and take down what you want at your own leisure.

Also, RMT happened on live no doubt, but it was eventually enforced, may have even be written in original EULA that you couldn't profit off the game.

I wasn't arguing that RMT is good/bad- in fact I said I think it's probably a good thing that P99 tries to be diligent about stopping it- same thing with boxing. I'm just saying that it's different to say that RMT is bad vs. saying RMT is not classic (same with boxing). Both RMT and boxing were very common in classic and weren't policed at all until well into our timeline. Classic doesn't automatically mean right or best. That's why people are often frustrated by the seemingly inconsistent message from the devs that at times say they are making a "museum" of EQ, warts and all and IDGAF if everyone likes it or nobody likes it, but then take out stuff they think is bad like AoE/swarming, RMT, boxing, leapfrogging, dps races, etc.

Of course the RMT that was happening in classic was significantly different than having a cash-shop button built into the UI like Live is currently.

[mickmoranis]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Boxing was classic but P99 does not endorse. I believe Nilbog went as far to say that boxing is what ruined EQ. Think about it as you, the player, are in a virtual reality world where you need to make allies to succeed and defeat certain content. Big loophole to just have a bunch of computers linked up and take down what you want at your own leisure.

Also, RMT happened on live no doubt, but it was eventually enforced, may have even be written in original EULA that you couldn't profit off the game.

personally I think RMT should be allowed if not for legal reasons. That way this could be more like a hobby rather than a disease.

Without RMT its like we're playing with collectable Lionel trains, that have no value. And spending 100% of our free time and ignoring our family for said worthless toy trains.

But thats just my opinion.