Pantheon - anyone been keeping track?

[Hitmonkey]

Originally Posted by fadetree [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, no. They won't get sued for 'copying' EQ lol. The guy, Brad McQuaid, originated EQ. And yeah it's been a while but these are HUGE undertakings and he's doing it without the backing of a giant conglomerate throwing fistfulls of money in the door. As far as I can see it's proceeding apace and I expect it will go beta sometime in the next 2 years.

?

Daybreak owns the IP. Just because you're the developer on a project doesn't mean years later you get to make the exact same project for yourself with IP rights involved, and the reason why I mentioned it is if you watch the latest live in development playthrough even the classes are exactly the same it's pretty much the exact same game. Daybreak isn't going to let him make a MMO that's an exact copy of EQ live

Edit- by "exactly the same" I mean same names -same terminology, if you stripped the pantheon name and labeled it EQ Next you wouldn't know the difference.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Hitmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

?

Daybreak owns the IP. Just because you're the developer on a project doesn't mean years later you get to make the exact same project for yourself with IP rights involved, and the reason why I mentioned it is if you watch the latest live in development playthrough even the classes are exactly the same it's pretty much the exact same game. Daybreak isn't going to let him make a MMO that's an exact copy of EQ live

It's kind of like a musician that creates that first master album that sweeps the world with it's creativity.

Then the musician creates newer music and albums and none of them come close to that first awesome album.

After years of failed music, the musician then tries to recreate a new album but decides to try to add stuff that was in the first album, but instead of coming off as creative it comes off as stale and just a bad copy of the first awesome album made years earlier.

We have heard this song before. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Squabbles123]

Originally Posted by Hitmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

?

Daybreak owns the IP. Just because you're the developer on a project doesn't mean years later you get to make the exact same project for yourself with IP rights involved, and the reason why I mentioned it is if you watch the latest live in development playthrough even the classes are exactly the same it's pretty much the exact same game. Daybreak isn't going to let him make a MMO that's an exact copy of EQ live

Its not an exact copy though..."gnomes" and such are not unique to EQ, so thats not enough. They don't use any location names from EQ, so the world is different...so the only things that are "the same" are some the UI elements (which is probably mostly temp placeholders) and the style of MMO.

How is it "the exact same game"?

Seeing as the game's been in development for 2 years and Daybreak is bleeding cash out its asshole...you'd think if they had a case to sue, they'd have done it by now.

So yeah, this lawsuit you speak of will not happen.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Squabbles123 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its not an exact copy though..."gnomes" and such are not unique to EQ, so thats not enough. They don't use any location names from EQ, so the world is different...so the only things that are "the same" are some the UI elements (which is probably mostly temp placeholders) and the style of MMO.

How is it "the exact same game"?

Seeing as the game's been in development for 2 years and Daybreak is bleeding cash out its asshole...you'd think if they had a case to sue, they'd have done it by now.

So yeah, this lawsuit you speak of will not happen.

I don't see a lawsuit either, but I do see what his gripe is about.

I was kind of surprised that there's gnomes, ogres, warriors, all the names we are familiar are being used in Pantheon it seems.

I really hope the game is worth playing, but was a tad disappointed that more creativity was not used with the classes, races, etc.

[HappyTr33z]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was kind of surprised that there's gnomes, ogres, warriors, all the names we are familiar are being used in Pantheon it seems.

I really hope the game is worth playing, but was a tad disappointed that more creativity was not used with the classes, races, etc.

Eh, for me I would prefer them to use the archetypical races/classes. I don't mind a few "out there" races/classes, but as a general rule I like the typical high-fantasy stuff most. I can't recall the name of the game but there was this one MMO I played years ago that didn't have any of the usual races/classes you'd come to expect, instead there were "runes", "blademasters", "wardens", etc and it just felt odd. The classes in EQ, and other games using primarily DnD style classes, just make sense.

The game is meant for classic EQ players, I would expect them to atleast bring back the original race/class lineup that was available in the base version of EQ. If they wanted to add on from there, that's great. Alot of people got attached to their in-game characters though, and being able to revive their old EQ character in Pantheon
would probably be quite important.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Hitmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Daybreak owns the IP. Just because you're the developer on a project doesn't mean years later you get to make the exact same project for yourself with IP rights involved, and the reason why I mentioned it is if you watch the latest live in development playthrough even the classes are exactly the same it's pretty much the exact same game. Daybreak isn't going to let him make a MMO that's an exact copy of EQ live

Edit- by "exactly the same" I mean same names -same terminology, if you stripped the pantheon name and labeled it EQ Next you wouldn't know the difference.

You have to understand what "IP" means. It can mean trademarks, like say "EverQuest(tm)"; Pantheon definitely isn't using that. It can mean patents, like say "I've discovered an algorithm for sorting characters by race faster" ... but it's unlikely Pantheon is using any patented technology ... or, to be more accurate, they probably are, as is just about any software company on the planet; software patents are a mess. But Pantheon doesn't have to worry about them anymore than any other company their size.

So that leaves copyright. You can copyright works, but you can't copyright ideas. I can copyright this post (in fact, as the author by default I own the copyright on it), and Verant/SOE owns the copyright on their source code. But unless Pantheon literally copies old Verant code there's no copyright violation. And as a programmer I can guarantee they're not doing that, if only because 15+ year old code is nearly worthless.

So yes, you can make an exact copy of a game if you want, as long as you don't use their trademarked names, copyrighted images or source code, or violate any patents. And people have done exactly that: just look at the app store on your phone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. Or, more recently, some guy made a Zelda fan game, and Nintendo came down hard on him. He's still planning to release (basically) the exact same game, just now with the Zelda IP removed. And he's on solid legal ground.

Important Caveat: IP law is way more complex than my simple explanation, so if you want real answers talk to a lawyer.

Originally Posted by Triiz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm surprised Daybreak wasn't all over shutting that shit down.

That was probably another factor making them abandon it (besides just the player complaints). Also the Daybreak agreement wasn't too long after that, but I don't think they were related.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also the Daybreak agreement wasn't too long after that, but I don't think they were related.

What "agreement?"

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What "agreement?"

Originally Posted by Rogean

We have recently entered into a written agreement with Daybreak Game Company LLC

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=191146

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=191146

Thx for finding that!

[Triiz]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That was probably another factor making them abandon it (besides just the player complaints). Also the Daybreak agreement wasn't too long after that, but I don't think they were related.

This quote from edited OP and the last 2 pages of the thread make it sound like the sole reason it didn't happen is because the Kickstarter campaign failed.

We are sorry to hear that the Kickstarter project for Pantheon did not meet it's funding, so we have removed the tier reward section of this post to prevent confusion.