Raid guild loot systems other than DKP?

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by thufir [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The way bidding is handled, including what threshold you are allowed to bid at, is subjective. Most guilds have raid attendance requirements that prevent you from bidding if you are not at a certain raid attendance %.

That's decidedly worse than random for people who play occasionally.

I get that everyone has this "what have you done for me lately" attitude that prevents a more equitable DKP system but otherwise I don't get it. If you collected a bunch of DKP three months ago but had to do RL things for a summer and came back in the fall, why should you have to raid another month to get RA up before you cash it in? You still did all that work.

Just saying, it seems to work for everyone in those systems, but that's definitely a bias in favor of the hard core above and beyond just how much DKP you accumulate.

Just tell me that you wouldn't be salty that you've lost your 40th /rand roll in a row on an item and it went to a first timer. I know there is a whole fluffy love feeling behind the /rand, but eventually it leads to people getting upset and leaving. People in Clue have actually griped to me about this.

Our guild did this on live, and I was new and won an Indicolite BP in hate over a guy that was basically an officer in our guild and built it from the ground up. He eventually left and we adopted a loot council / linking system until the guild disbanded. I should have been the bigger man and passed that item to him, but overcoming greed is tough in a digital pixel world.

To boil it down, /Rand systems are the welfare of EQ, Loot Council is run by Democrats, DKP by Republicans.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just tell me that you wouldn't be salty that you've lost your 40th /rand roll in a row on an item and it went to a first timer. I know there is a whole fluffy love feeling behind the /rand, but eventually it leads to people getting upset and leaving. People in Clue have actually griped to me about this.

Warrior/mage/etc epics decided on a random? I dunno folks...

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warrior/mage/etc epics decided on a random? I dunno folks...

I was under the impression that when guilds who used /ran on raid loots did epic raids for members specifically, the member was granted the item they needed.

[thufir]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just tell me that you wouldn't be salty that you've lost your 40th /rand roll in a row on an item and it went to a first timer. I know there is a whole fluffy love feeling behind the /rand, but eventually it leads to people getting upset and leaving. People in Clue have actually griped to me about this.

Our guild did this on live, and I was new and won an Indicolite BP in hate over a guy that was basically an officer in our guild and built it from the ground up. He eventually left and we adopted a loot council / linking system until the guild disbanded. I should have been the bigger man and passed that item to him, but overcoming greed is tough in a digital pixel world.

To boil it down, /Rand systems are the welfare of EQ, Loot Council is run by Democrats, DKP by Republicans.

sure, sometimes it can suck. and occasionally even clue will just say "this BP goes to person X" because they're part of their core team or whatever. so there's always some bones thrown to the people who line up to attend every day.

that having been said, it's not like DKP with RA doesn't get people upset and leaving either. they're just people who aren't hard core people, definitionally, and raiders generally lean towards keeping hard core people happy. /random doesn't keep hard core people happy, so a lot of guilds don't use it.

that's all it is, not some weird welfare/democrat/republican dichotomy like how you set it out.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just tell me that you wouldn't be salty that you've lost your 40th /rand roll in a row on an item and it went to a first timer. I know there is a whole fluffy love feeling behind the /rand, but eventually it leads to people getting upset and leaving. People in Clue have actually griped to me about this.

People get salty when they lose DKP bids too. There's no one system that's going to make everyone happy. At least /random is open and transparent.

It's too bad it's more trouble than it's worth to look at the numbers of all of the systems, such as raid attendance % versus loot earned %, member turnover rate, etc.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People get salty when they lose DKP bids too. There's no one system that's going to make everyone happy. At least /random is open and transparent.

It's too bad it's more trouble than it's worth to look at the numbers of all of the systems, such as raid attendance % versus loot earned %, member turnover rate, etc.

Blind dkp bidding should be a thing, best way of doing it. Easy to say "1" or "2" and know you're getting it for next to nothing, but if you value it you might go higher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know for a fact there were a couple of greedy bastards in Europa who in Sky would discourage people from the same class bidding on items. The officers didn't like it, I didn't like it... how dare someone send tells to their class brothers and say "hey dude, I REALLY need this, i've been after it for months - would you mind not bidding?". Wasn't a widespread thing but it did go on.

Hi Patoso, did you gear your 12 characters yet? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know for a fact there were a couple of greedy bastards in Europa who in Sky would discourage people from the same class bidding on items. The officers didn't like it, I didn't like it... how dare someone send tells to their class brothers and say "hey dude, I REALLY need this, i've been after it for months - would you mind not bidding?". Wasn't a widespread thing but it did go on.

This is 100% what I seen in another raid guild on this server regarding /ran rolls on some bottom tier raid quest items/drops. Had it personally happen to me. Either tells wanting to buy my winning roll, or tells discouraging me from rolling on an item for some made up reason by the player trying to explain why I shouldn't be rolling on an item and how they needed it.

After a few circumstances like this, all in one day I then realized how fake some of these guys were. All happy and "GRATS DUDE!!!!! YAY!!!!" in /gu chat but conniving in tells, trying to get more pixels at the detriment of others who fairly won something.

I just get really annoyed with this kind of behavior, and what makes it more ridiculous is these greedy dicks have an army of personal alts that walk around with more gear than the mains of the fringe players who they try to take gears away from.

It aint worth it. Sacrificing dignity and a sense of gaming freedom along with having to suck off guild leadership for pixels is BS, along with all the behind the scenes drama that goes on in tells from these greedy pricks.

I am sure there are some decent raid guilds, I just never seen one yet on this server. At this point no matter how loot is handled, I think as people have pointed out there are pros and cons to all the different systems of loot management. There's just no perfect way to ensure that everyone is treated fairly and equally, but I do think the /ran idea is as close to it as possible.

[Expediency]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Blind dkp bidding should be a thing, best way of doing it. Easy to say "1" or "2" and know you're getting it for next to nothing, but if you value it you might go higher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Blind dkp bidding is how we do it in AG, winner pays second place +1.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Expediency [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Blind dkp bidding is how we do it in AG, winner pays second place +1.

Oh, that kinda neat ^^

[Expediency]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh, that kinda neat ^^

Its great; our loot system is the best ive seen for casual players. I dont want to derail this thread but if anyone is interested in more info send me a tell or pm.