The legality of vigilantism is fundamentally flawed

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is that in response to my post? You'll have to expand ^^ I'm not familiar either either except what has been cited here occasionally of their esoteric conjectures on the mind with regard to sex.

Yeah, though I thought you were aware. It's ok, lots aren't aware of the source from what they are told or pick up. Um Freud was more about as you put it, not their fault, just passed from the parents (good story if you like to electrocute it out of them hehehe). Jung was about upbringing, environment etc.
Me, I take Freud, turn it upside down, and slap a Jung bumpersticker on the rear end. Everyone can potentially be as bad as [insert worst person you can think of here], and then be cast onto the lord of the flies island and make it at least a few days before initiating scorched earth.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, though I thought you were aware. It's ok, lots aren't aware of the source from what they are told or pick up. Um Freud was more about as you put it, not their fault, just passed from the parents (good story if you like to electrocute it out of them hehehe). Jung was about upbringing, environment etc.
Me, I take Freud, turn it upside down, and slap a Jung bumpersticker on the rear end. Everyone can potentially be as bad as [insert worst person you can think of here], and then be cast onto the lord of the flies island and make it at least a few days before initiating scorched earth.

Oh, that part. No, I wasn't told that, it's my own conclusion and I am happy to elaborate ^^ I say it's not their fault because disparate outcomes given similar environments suggest to me a genetic component. There are reasons we behave as we do beyond upbringing we are no more the same in personality than we are in mental or physical prowess. I don't fault criminals for being criminals anymore than I fault autists for their autism. Nature does not endow us all with the same gifts or shortcomings. Ultimately we all have choices to make, but some of us are prone to destructive behavior more than others. Society is better off without those.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh, that part. No, I wasn't told that, it's my own conclusion and I am happy to elaborate ^^ I say it's not their fault because disparate outcomes given similar environments suggest to me a genetic component. There are reasons we behave as we do beyond upbringing we are no more the same in personality than we are in mental or physical prowess. I don't fault criminals for being criminals anymore than I fault autists for their autism. Nature does not endow us all with the same gifts or shortcomings. Ultimately we all have choices to make, but some of us are prone to destructive behavior more than others. Society is better off without those.

Yeah, that's Freud. It's what they teach in school from early on, in most everything as a shaped perspective from their lessons. Like taking history class, you are likely getting the lecture from a freudian perspective. All the teachers are taught Freud psychology in college as part of their child psychology courses. So you start on it early, to mold your reasoning and perspectives.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, that's Freud. It's what they teach in school from early on, in most everything as a shaped perspective from their lessons. Like taking history class, you are likely getting the lecture from a freudian perspective. All the teachers are taught Freud psychology in college as part of their child psychology courses. So you start on it early, to mold your reasoning and perspectives.

Freud is only taught as a historical point. His psychology is vastly invalid and not practiced. There's also a literary criticism based on Freud, but it's just a method of analyzing a work and not valid in projecting onto a greater public debate.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Freud is only taught as a historical point. His psychology is vastly invalid and not practiced. There's also a literary criticism based on Freud, but it's just a method of analyzing a work and not valid in projecting onto a greater public debate.

No it's everywhere.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/we...ohen.html?_r=0
You are only talking about the expensive liberal universities as of recent. Whatever the latest craze there is I guess. Back down on the ground it's everywhere.

You know, because this is about developing reasoning skills etc. As not everyone can afford to stay in college all their life, well teachers etc were traind decades ago and in charge of schools etc. Anywal, a lot of people are still effected by it, part of their thing. Maybe soon enough we'll get UN or FEMA re-education camps opened to teach us the latest pile of horse sh^t to make us even more crazy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, that's Freud. It's what they teach in school from early on, in most everything as a shaped perspective from their lessons. Like taking history class, you are likely getting the lecture from a freudian perspective. All the teachers are taught Freud psychology in college as part of their child psychology courses. So you start on it early, to mold your reasoning and perspectives.

No, I get where you are coming from Day and where you want to go with it, but my thoughts on this isn't a product of some Freudian indoctrination. I am very much a proponent of individual responsibility, but it is painfully evident (and has become more so as I have aged) that some people are simply more destructive than others even as infants. I don't see how you can attribute all of human behavior to environment most especially when you see different results given the same or similar circumstances :/

How do you account for different outcomes given the same or similar circumstances?

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, I get where you are coming from Day and where you want to go with it, but my thoughts on this isn't a product of some Freudian indoctrination. I am very much a proponent of individual responsibility, but it is painfully evident (and has become more so as I have aged) that some people are simply more destructive than others even as infants. I don't see how you can attribute all of human behavior to environment most especially when you see different results given the same or similar circumstances :/

How do you account for different outcomes given the same or similar circumstances?

Because like I mentioned, everybody is born bad. One baby is just as screwed up as the next. Thats closer to Jung, but taking the bad people of Frued that were just born that way, applying it to everyone. Still Jung, but just at the lowest point I guess.

So then yeah, upbringing makes 100% the final product. Not 50%, or some starting at 10% while others 80%, but everyone starting at -100% [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] If we are diligent, maybe we can make it to 0. But the odds of that is maybe 1 in 15 billion.

So yeah, Frued. If you can say one is born good and another not so good or bad, well thats just what it comes from [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ...in the West.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because like I mentioned, everybody is born bad. One baby is just as screwed up as the next. Thats closer to Jung, but taking the bad people of Frued that were just born that way, applying it to everyone. Still Jung, but just at the lowest point I guess.

So then yeah, upbringing makes 100% the final product. Not 50%, or some starting at 10% while others 80%, but everyone starting at -100% [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] If we are diligent, maybe we can make it to 0. But the odds of that is maybe 1 in 15 billion.

So yeah, Frued. If you can say one is born good and another not so good or bad, well thats just what it comes from [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ...in the West.

So you believe that all people with shitty upbringing will always be shitty adults and become criminals?

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you believe that all people with shitty upbringing will always be shitty adults and become criminals?

Look at the inner-cities that are burning. Family structure has been destroyed. I know it's not the entirety of the problem, but it's the starting point. Fatherless children growing up, no real guidance, no mentoring. In the case of blacks, it's even worse since if the fatherless children do find a mentor; it's government sponsored, black liberation theology churches or inner-city gangs (or all of the above).

And I believe they are actually targeted to be that way, by local, state and federal government. Like one of my fav Reagan quotes "government isn't the solution to the problem, government is the problem" (but not that there should be no govt). They use psychology to manipulate the various groups, it's literally in everything now, even f2p mmo's.

When babies are born, they are born completely sociopathic. It takes us a while to realize that the universe in fact doesn't revolve around us. And it's not just automatic, it takes a good deal of basic wisdom and usually within the first 12 years of development. Wisdom often comes by fire and trial, unless you are fortunate to have someone teach you as best they can. Nothing too complicated that a low IQ cant learn, while high IQ no great advantage.

But not saying that the totality of humanity is pure evil, there is some evil that just must be learned before doing, even of the unthinkable as it were. Just that we are all void, but not soulless. We even have emotional responses by nature, but those responses can eventually be nullified if such acts are committed over and over. Even to the point of a negative response becoming a good response and a desire for it.

I think of humans as like a base code, all the needed code to operate, layers of code (not getting too technical here). just like a program works, but very advanced as in sentient AI (no emphasis on the Artificial, but just to provide the familiar). Everyone is imprinted the same in the beginning much like a template including all the code to basically function. Including firmware to interact with the body, it's a complete system. The brain is basically a CPU and data storage unit, very mechanical. But what we are, at our core, we're data, and everything else in our system (body etc) is there as an environment to develop our data, and much of it programmed from the external throughout our lives.

Now, introduce a virus. Introduce various anti-virus programs. And finally when the system fails (the cpu, the power supply etc), the totality of the data can be transferred. After all, everything in our environment is very possibly digital. A sort of computer running a simulation of sorts.

Now, for um crime and punishment, there just comes a point that they are so corrupt, there is no coming back. I don't think we are born as total psychopaths, but that is simply the cascade effect of an introduced virus to the system. If dealt with early, it can be anti-virused out before damage to the system is done, but at some point it does damage the base code and overwrites ethical reasoning subroutines. Not that a sociopath is ethical, but whatever could have been developed over that becomes fundamentally broken, like a hard drive making "click of death" noises and begins behaving erratic. Either the system is allowed to corrupt and destroy other systems, or it is shut down.


tl;dr we're living in a digital simulation, full of consequences to our own actions.