The legality of vigilantism is fundamentally flawed

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's so much you're missing with this topic that I'm gonna sharpen your shovel so that you can dig better.

Well, to be fair (fare? Don't feel like googling that) you are the one who suggested executing children for taking gum ^^

From the criminal's perspective though,

Would you rather live your life bearing the shame of your transgressions loudly declared by a maiming that has rendered you dependent on the society you have violated, or would you rather liberate society of your burden?

From society's perspective,

Would you rather subject someone to the forgoing, or rid them of their shame and the free the good peoples of that burden. Why should upstanding individuals be punished for the failures of others?

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, to be fair (fare? Don't feel like googling that) you are the one who suggested executing children for taking gum ^^

From the criminal's perspective though,

Would you rather live your life bearing the shame of your transgressions loudly declared by a maiming that has rendered you dependent on the society you have violated, or would you rather liberate society of your burden?

From society's perspective,

Would you rather subject someone to the forgoing, or rid them of their shame and the free the good peoples of that burden. Why should upstanding individuals be punished for the failures of others?

That's like assuming criminals won't be able to get guns.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's like assuming criminals won't be able to get guns.

Not sure I follow you here :/ Are you suggesting criminals wouldn't willingly choose execution over a lost hand? You are probably right for most, but that is because they are depraved. I am simply laying the case that capital punishment is infinitely superior and in no way analogous (finally learned how to fucking spell that!) to the backwards barbarism of Sharia law.

Killing criminals is the rational thing to do
It is the just thing to do
It is the compassionate thing to do

How can it not be the right thing to do?

[Nihilist_santa]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure I follow you here :/ Are you suggesting criminals wouldn't willingly choose execution over a lost hand? You are probably right for most, but that is because they are depraved. I am simply laying the case that capital punishment is infinitely superior and in no way analogous (finally learned how to fucking spell that!) to the backwards barbarism of Sharia law.

Killing criminals is the rational thing to do
It is the just thing to do
It is the compassionate thing to do

How can it not be the right thing to do?

No need for us to become barbarians and start maiming people. All we need is some prison reform. Watched a doc on Japanese prisons recently. They are kept segregated and forced to work. There is no ability to create gangs within the prison and they learn a skill and work off their debt. As it is now for the degenerates who are criminals jail becomes second nature where they know they will get 3 squares and TV with their pals and in some cases more drugs than on the street.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Nihilist_santa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No need for us to become barbarians and start maiming people. All we need is some prison reform. Watched a doc on Japanese prisons recently. They are kept segregated and forced to work. There is no ability to create gangs within the prison and they learn a skill and work off their debt. As it is now for the degenerates who are criminals jail becomes second nature where they know they will get 3 squares and TV with their pals and in some cases more drugs than on the street.

Glad to see more recognition of Japanese prisons. Japan does prisons (like many other things) right ^^ They focus on rehabilitation by teaching discipline. Inmates are not allowed to share food or even speak during meals to minimize conflict. That aside though, I'm not advocating maiming people in case that wasn't clear. It is inefficient and morally repugnant.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure I follow you here :/ Are you suggesting criminals wouldn't willingly choose execution over a lost hand? You are probably right for most, but that is because they are depraved. I am simply laying the case that capital punishment is infinitely superior and in no way analogous (finally learned how to fucking spell that!) to the backwards barbarism of Sharia law.

Killing criminals is the rational thing to do
It is the just thing to do
It is the compassionate thing to do

How can it not be the right thing to do?

Sharia has nothing to do with it. Your basis was that there is an inherent sense of shame in the criminal and that they would rather be put to death due to their shame. If they don't have a sense of shame, which you shouldn't because it isn't 1500's puritanical law anymore, then how could they feel shame that they would need liberation from via death. Get modern with your thoughts on this, research behaviorism, research profitability within criminal justice, research criminal justice reform, and weigh Santa's reform argument while comparing it to how and why criminal justice is applied.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sharia has nothing to do with it. Your basis was that there is an inherent sense of shame in the criminal and that they would rather be put to death due to their shame. If they don't have a sense of shame, which you shouldn't because it isn't 1500's puritanical law anymore, then how could they feel shame that they would need liberation from via death. Get modern with your thoughts on this, research behaviorism, research profitability within criminal justice, research criminal justice reform, and weigh Santa's reform argument while comparing it to how and why criminal justice is applied.

Jarn suggested some of us were closer to Sharia shortly after my post, so that is how it ties in ^^ As for feeling ashamed of crime, they very much should feel ashamed of wrongdoing and I find it amusing for you to suggest otherwise ^^ If they do not there is something wrong with them. We have enough people as it is and don't need to waste resources correcting deficient ones.

[Jarnauga]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jarn suggested some of us were closer to Sharia shortly after my post, so that is how it ties in ^^ As for feeling ashamed of crime, they very much should feel ashamed of wrongdoing and I find it amusing for you to suggest otherwise ^^ If they do not there is something wrong with them. We have enough people as it is and don't need to waste resources correcting deficient ones.

My point was that saying "let's kill all criminals so they don't do it again" is not that different than saying "let's cut his and, he won't steal again"

or saying that women and men together are the reason for rapes. i can find lots of muslim assholes that agree with that, trust me.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My point was that saying "let's kill all criminals so they don't do it again" is not that different than saying "let's cut his and, he won't steal again"

or saying that women and men together are the reason for rapes. i can find lots of muslim assholes that agree with that, trust me.

I understood what you were saying and that is why I made the case for the moral superiority of capital punishment ^^

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jarn suggested some of us were closer to Sharia shortly after my post, so that is how it ties in ^^ As for feeling ashamed of crime, they very much should feel ashamed of wrongdoing and I find it amusing for you to suggest otherwise ^^ If they do not there is something wrong with them. We have enough people as it is and don't need to waste resources correcting deficient ones.

Why should they feel ashamed? What they do they're reaponsible for which has no bearing on feeling or not feeling shame.